Matt

Please, I am not trying to stir up any shit. I did not remove the bolts on Cocaine Crack, but SOMEONE DID. What worries me more is that SOMEONE had the audacity to drill there in the first place. I see two options: 1. Sunday morning there was a police officer sitting in his cruiser at the base of Icicle Buttress. When I asked him why, he said, "There are a lot of accidents here," so he was scouting out his potential rescues for the day. When I asked him if he was a climber he said, "No. I know just enough to rescue people." (paraphased) Option 1 is Officer Rescue could arrest people who drill without a permit. Can't you just imagine him taking warning shots from the road? Hopefully he would use a rifle and scope if shooting at a driller on Coke Crack, there might be an accident if he'd tried with his side arm. 2. We police ourselves. If I saw someone drilling up there, I might just accidentally kick a rock down while hiking around the top. Really neither option 1 or 2 is a good one. So what's option 3? I don't know. Do we start our own 501©(3)? Do we form our own ruling body and have legislation passed for the local police department to enforce? Or do we keep wild at heart and resist any kind of law that would restrict us in our pursuit of wilderness. I'm stirring it up again and I really don't want to, but the issue is there and I can't ignore it. I can't ignore it because I climbed this really cool crack and I saw litter. Let me tell you a secret: I peed on the rusty hanger. I had to go. It was hot and I drank a liter of gatorade while climbing up. There were'nt any parties below us and I was sure it would dry in the sun. Maybe if we all pee on it the bolt will loosen and fall out.

Sunday I climbed Cocaine Crack on Icicle Buttress--- an excellent crack that I recommend to any climber new to Leavenworth. I noticed while climbing that someone had bolted the crack. This is a stellar fingers to hands crack that sucks up good gear and bolts are totally unecessary. Obviously some climbers agreed with my opinion that the bolts were unnecessary because all of them had been pulled. Mostly there were just holes in the rock where someone had drilled, but at the bottom of the crack there was a hangerless bolt sticking out about an inch. Very strange. I also noticed at the bottom of the Buttress there was a line of bolts on the right hand side. It was mostly a face climb, but the first 15 - 20 feet followed a finger crack up to a small bulge. This was also bolted. There are three shiny bolts all within a foot of the crack and bomber nut placements. The bolts are very visible from the road and an eyesore. Do any local climbers know the facts surrounding these climbs? I'd sure like to know. It was beautiful all weekend at Leavenworth and I had a great time climbing in the sun. I hope everyone else got out too.

quote: Originally posted by viktor: DDD is nothing more than a 1983 sport route that never had the bolts put in. How do you know no one climbed it before 1983? I climbed with some guy who claimed to climb it in the 70's.

This is a dangerous game we play. But to play is to rejoice in living!

quote: Originally posted by Yossarian: All this talk about posting pictures of the chopping and continuous bragging is hard to listen to. Most of us agree the bolts should not have been placed, but how much praise do you need for chopping them? I think it is important for the PNW climbing community to discuss important issues related to climbing in an open forum so that consensus can be found and agreed upon. This is democracy. We are Americans. The issue at hand is the protection (no pun intended) of our limited natural resources. This web site provides an ideal forum where policy can be debated intelligently by experienced climbers as well as give new climbers a chance to learn about the issues. It is not a given that someone who learned how to climb in a climbing gym would necessarily think retro-bolting is wrong. Likewise, if such climber went to Little Si, Exit 38, and Vantage he or she might think it is acceptable to indiscriminately drill bolts to make any line safe. Look at what climbers have done at Fossil Rock. It is only acceptable because FR is a random choss heap in the middle of nowhere. On the other hand, the climbing around Leavenworth is simply amazing. Castle Rock is a treasure and should be protected. I hope new climbers reading this thread will learn it's not okay to deface rock in Washington State. It's not okay to add permanent fixtures to our wilderness without first finding concensus and approval from the community. We must respect other climbers' wishes. Let's make this a thought provoking discussion and not a mud slinging contest. [This message has been edited by Matt (edited 07-20-2001).]

Thank you Mitch, Ray and Will for restoring Castle Rock . Someone has to draw the line. I am behind you 100%. I think most of the PNW climbing community is behind you too.

Just wondering, did you get your gear back?

BATTLE CAGE!

[This message has been edited by Matt (edited 07-14-2001).]

Probably Vantage/Frenchmen Coulee where its always dry when the rest of WA is in the clouds.

Julie, Send me an email and let's meet up. I've found that all climbers are scrappy climbers at some grade so no worries! I went to Little Si yesterday and it was BEAUTIFUL!!! There are ripe berries on the trail and even on some climbs. Not too many people and there was no "scene" which I like. It was peaceful. Let's climb together! You can reach me at: matthew_heller@hotmail.com

I'm a writer. I write and research grant proposals for non-profit organizations when I'm not working on more creative writing projects for myself. It allows me to work at home which I love and I have a flexible schedule so the occasional midweek climb is allowable.

Sounds good.

Hey Dwayner, What do you think of the Whistle Stop Pub in Renton? Ever heard of it? It's southend, lot's of good micro brus, pool table, and I think a good compromise for T Towners vs. Belllevue / Seattle folks. Just a thought. Do you know of any good bouldering around Tacoma where we could meet? A beer and a boulder session sounds good to me. Beck, cheers to you for getting this started. Do you think the bar will be overcrowded tonight? I have a feeling Lisa is right and it will be standing room only.

Anyone want to climb after work at Little Si or Exit 38? I have been working out in the gym and am burnt out on the whole thing. I enjoy 5.8 to 5.11 climbing. I'm just a simple climber who enjoys challenging activities in the wilderness. [This message has been edited by Matt (edited 07-23-2001).]

Has anyone done any good climbs naked? I did some really cool naked solo climbs at night in Arapiles, Australia. All very easy and some long enough to be out there. I don't remember any route names, but they were all an easy walk from camp in the pines.

I go skinny dipping any chance I get! The last time I did it was in the Japan Alps near Nagano. We were ice climbing and next to the tent where we camped there were the most lovely natural hot springs. Winter camping is so much more enjoyable when there are a series of pools of varying temperatures to warm up in. If the sun is warm and I am alone or with friends on the trail I enjoy hiking in the buff. Luckily in America this is occasionally possible.

I have seen the bolts in question and they are obnoxious and ugly. What is wrong with top roping? Why did the bolters feel they needed to deface this beautiful piece of rock? Is the route better because those who get on the sharp end feel their egos stroked by clipping big shiny bolts? It really kills me to see those bolts. At a minimum I would like to see the bolts painted over to match the color of the rock. Ray, if you can pull the bolts and patch the holes with glue and dust so that DDD looks more like it did in its original condition then I fully support you in chopping the bolts. The aim of the chopping should be to return the climb to its original asthetic.

Count me in. Tacoma, the mountains, Seattle for beer, whatever. And Dru, if we hang at Eight Mile Campground don't worry about the imports. I think plenty of us will cover you.

Yes, I know nat'l parks are nature preserves ergo are special and should be saved for future generations. In the spirit of conservation I would like to see pack animals banned from parks for in my experience they do much more damage than dogs-- though I admit more people have dogs than horses/mules so this can be disputed. If parks are to be preserved then we should keep cars, especially RVs, out of our nat'l parks. Until this is done I will not feel that the ban on dogs is fair. An army of dogs do nowhere near the damage a single RV does.

Lambone, Yeah, Scout would make a great rope gun-- he's always pulling at the lead, though he's a bit of a hangdogger.

They run a little too narrow for my foot. The leather and sole are both in great shape. I use lots of snow seal so they look darker than the ones in the store. I've been wearing Footfangs w/ them so the welt is still good-- compatible with step-in crampons.

Peter Hopkirk, "The Great Game" Great Britain fights the Soviet Union for control of Central Asia in the 19th Century. Afganistan does both countries up the ass. The title is from Kipling's Kim, "The great game is afoot." Peter Hopkirk, "Tresspassers on the Roof of the World" The race to Lhasa, Tibet. Both of these books cover some real life espionage and exploration from the point of view of a British secret agent. A must read for anyone going to or interested in Tibet, Pakistan, India, Kyrgistan, Afganistan, Russia, Kazakstan, etc., et al.

Hey Holly, My dog Scout likes to climb naked too, though when he has to he wears his mountainsmith dog pack. :-) Last time I took him to Vantage his pink nose started to become burned so I lathered it with some SPF 45 and he was happy with that. I would love to take Scout on up St. Helens too, but after foolishly trying to hike w/ him to Camp Muir and getting threatened by some volunteer patrol I've shied away from populated mtns. Question: Has anyone had luck with putting doggie boots on their pooch to protect its feet from frost bite and/or blisters from sharp rocks? P.S. Apologies to Lisa for making your dating service thread into a pooch thread.

For Sale: La Sportiva Makalu boots. Perfect for mountaineering. Size 10 Worn 2 Seasons. $50 OBO [This message has been edited by Matt (edited 06-29-2001).]