Peter_Baer

Well we tried going up via the Burgundy col route yesterday. The plan was to camp at the basin below the col and summit Sunday morning. Unfortunately, with the warm weather recently, the snow on the (west-facing) rib leading up to the basin was getting increasingly gloppy as the afternoon progressed, and the thought of what that was doing to the avalanche danger in the gully up to the col (which we'd have to descent late morning/early afternoon the next day) was enough to turn us around. Also, the afternoon squalls were dumping snow at an alarming rate, so that made the decision easier.

Anyone been up there lately?

BTW, Arc'teryx gear can be gotten fairly cheap in Vancouver (which is where it's made). I got a Bora 80 at Coast Mountain Sports last year for < US$200 (remember to get the GST back at the border).

FYI: The NAI courses focus on stability evaluation, forecasting, and rescue. They are not really the track for avalanche professionals -- for that you would take a course with the Canadian Avalanche Association or the National Ski Patrol. Learning how to play with explosives is a whole different subject...

To follow up... Jakub Kulesza and I took the NAI Level I course last month, and I can say it was worth every cent. The principal instructors were Paul Baugher (ski patrol director at Crystal), and Mark Moore (head of the Northwest Weather and Avalanche Institute). The mornings of each of the two days were spent in lecture, and the afternoons in the field. The class consisted of a mix of recreational backcountry skiers and climbers, junior ski patrollers and climbing/skiing guides. Aside from the thorough introduction to the physics of snow metamorphism, vapor pressure gradients, weather factors, etc., and field experience digging snow pits and doing Rutschblock tests, the most valuable lesson was the rescue scenario. I won't give away any details since part of its effectiveness came from the fact that we didn't really know what to expect. The point we took home was that you have to practice, practice, practice this stuff! Even if you've read everything about how to conduct a rescue, the fact is that in a high-stress situation you will not be able to put that book-learnin' into practice with any sort of efficiency. This is something your body must remember physically doing many times before. Simple mistakes, like forgetting to make sure everyone in the search party has their beacons set to receive, can cost valuable time (and forgetting to turn it back to transmit when another avalanche hits can cost you your life!). If you're struggling to remember what to do, you're likely to tunnel-vision on the first thing that comes to mind (say, homing in on your buddy's beacon) and lose sight of the big picture (Is somebody keeping an eye on that hangfire threatening to cause another avalanche? Are you missing any clues about where the victim might have ended up? Does somebody have a probe and shovel ready to go once you've pinpointed the beacon?). I highly recommend the class; unfortunately it's only offered once a year. We will probably take the Level II course next year. [This message has been edited by Peter Baer (edited 02-20-2001).]

I just want to give a plug for the Mountaineers library, which has an extensive collection of new, out-of-print and rare books related to mountaineering, complete or nearly-complete sets of all the major climbing journals, as well as maps, videos, software and magazines. Plus friendly volunteers to help you find what you're looking for . It's open Mon-Thu evenings from 5-9pm, located in the Mountaineers clubhouse around the corner from the bookstore. If you're interested in buying books and can't find them anywhere else, check out Chessler Books. They specialize in mountaineering literature and have a vast selection of new and old books.

IMHO using a bladder/hose combination in subfreezing weather is efficient only for relatively short trips. Obviously it helps to use an insulated bladder/hose, putting hot water in the bladder at the start of the trip, and threading the hose inside of your jacket if possible or wearing the entire thing under your jacket (although I don't find these latter two options very comfortable). For me, using an insulated Camelbak with hot water usually works well for a shortish day trip... it's perfect for night skiing after work for example. Anything longer and I use one Nalgene filled with warm water (or tea, Cytomax, etc) for the first couple hours, and a second filled with boiling water at the start of the trip and put into an OR Nalgene insulator. The water in the insulated bottle will stay nice and toasty the rest of the day (esp. if you keep it in your pack), and by the time you're done with the first bottle it'll have cooled enough to drink without burning your tongue. Repeat if necessary, filling the empty first bottle with boiling water and insulating it. The insulator also allows you to use a Nalgene as an efficient hot water bottle in your sleeping bag at night. Note that many bladders (certainly Camelbaks) will retain the color and/or flavor of whatever you put in it. This is harmless if you always put the same stuff in (mine is permanently stained yellow from using citrus Cytomax ) and make sure you dry it out well after use.

Thanks for the info. Dave Lennon and I played around on Um[p]tanum Falls this morning -- lots of fun for beginners like us since it's so easily TR-able. BTW for the record, the falls are indeed formed by the creek that scratched out the canyon of the same name (mod the spelling) -- it's just at the other end. No one else at the falls... just an ROTC group at the trailhead getting ready for some sort of winter orienteering exercise.

How does one get to this climb? I've hiked in Umtanum canyon, between Ellensburg and Yakima -- are we talking about the same thing? (I don't remember any falls there)

Why should only the contributors have full access to the data? I thought the whole point was to make this a public resource. If you want the database to be resilient to the vagaries of its official maintainers, then anyone should be allowed to mirror it (another reason to have it in a simple universal format like XML).

Should this proposed database contain only reviewed material -- guidebook style route descriptions -- or also individual route reports? It would be nice to have all the beta you need for a particular climb in one central place. Similarly, it would be good if there were a way to incorporate photos as well -- overviews showing the entire route as well as photos accompanying individual route reports. Of course that requires a beefier storage solution. And just to throw out a technical suggestion: it would be great if the database were XML-based to allow third parties to incorporate the data easily. For example, in my spare time I'm working on a tool to produce high-quality 2D and 3D maps from 7.5-minute DEMs and DLGs for an entire region (e.g. the Cascades) -- it would be spiffy if I could pull down some XML to overlay peak names, routes, etc., onto the map.

Do you have a link or reference to that paper?

I took the Cascade Alpine Guides basic mountaineering course and would recommend it to anyone willing to spend a little extra to get a solid (and safe) climbing foundation. As for the Mountaineers: as others have mentioned, their library is outstanding and would be reason enough to join (in fact I've started to volunteer there). [This message has been edited by Peter Baer (edited 01-06-2001).]

quote: Originally posted by SherpaJim: It does put a greater strain on the shoulders, much more than a full size pack, so periodically, I wear my regular pack and load it up. - Jim Yeah, my concern is that a small-but-heavy pack (or a vest) won't work out the lower core muscles like a real 45lb 5000 cu pack, where most of the weight is on the hips, would. But maybe it's not that big a deal...

I'm looking for something that will simulate a real pack yet is compact enough that I can wear it to the gym without knocking people about. What about weight vests? I would guess that they don't work out the back and butt muscles the same way but they sure are a lot less bulky. They run about $90 so I'm also thinking about constructing a workout pack by just stripping an old pack and hanging weights on it.

Dave Lennon and I went "foam climbing" at CC last week -- great fun.

I just talked to Paul Baugher at the NAI. The NAI courses are pretty much the industry standard for guides and avalanche workers in the NW. They are taught by avalanche professionals who all have at least 15 years operational experience (see http://www.avalanche.org/~nai/staff.htm for credentials). They do not issue certificates per se; the only official certificate you can get is by completing the National Avalanche School, which is a week-long course held every two years (http://www.nsp.org/Education/avalancheschool.htm) and which is what you take if you want to become an avalanche professional yourself. I asked Paul if Gary Brill's course at Mountain Madness is equivalent to the NAI's level I and he said that the content is probably similar but it is more of an awareness course rather than the foundation for a guide-level avalanche education. He described Gary Brill as competent but pointed out that he's not an avalanche professional and that a course taken through him is unlikely to be recognized by anyone outside of WA. Whereas, although the NAI doesn't issue official credentials, their instructors and courses are nationally recognized by other avalanche professionals. The $225 for the level I course at Crystal does not include lodging (but one could stay at a motel in Enumclaw or camp near Crystal). The instructor:student ratio is about 1:8 in the field with a total class size of 25-30. The fee does include lift tickets for both days but (before you get too excited) there is basically no time for extracurricular activity. Most of the field time is spent in Crystal's south backcountry (using your personal ski/snowboard equipment) and you basically only use the lift ticket for one ride up each day. You do not need to have taken the NAI level I course in order to take their level II course, but you obviously want to have had some introductory course, and the NAI level II course builds directly on top of level I. Level II course students are expected to have spent a lot of time (50%) on rescue techniques in their introductory course, which most awareness courses don't.

Any recommendations for an introductory avalanche course (in the Seattle area)? The options I've found so are: Mountain Madness: 3 lectures, 1 field trip, $125 (http://www.mountainmadness.com/alpine/avalanche.htm) NW Avalanche Institute: 1 full weekend, $225 (http://www.avalanche.org/~nai/course.htm) Mountaineers: 1 lecture, 1 field trip, $30 (http://home.earthlink.net/~brenthostetler/Go12.html) [This message has been edited by Peter Baer (edited 11-30-2000).]

FWIW, snowshoeing above Snow Lake this weekend I saw what (to me) looked like evidence of at least two decent-sized slab avalanches on the E slopes of Chair and Roosevelt. I would have thought that with the fairly uniform, dry powder we have right now, we'd be seeing almost exclusively sluff avalanches (many tracks of which I also saw, BTW)? Is it possible for depth hoar to have formed in such a short time, what with the clear cold weather recently?