summitchaserCJB

Yep I had a sunburn experience (read as second degree burn on face) from Saint Helen's. Good thing about that is it only happens to you once. Hey, at least your willing to share your epics. I also have a Mt. Rainier white-out story.

I'm sure tons of people have been up there, despite the bad weather.

Is this one of those Becky tactics where he purposefully give only the minimal beta, thus preserving the adventure aspects of the climb? If so, bravo.

You are freaking out....man.

Great perspective. Makes it look way harder than it is. Not to spray but it looks like you could have used a directional.

Josh- Agreed. But just because logic leads us to a conclusion we don't like (which is not the case here BTW) doesn't mean we shouldn't use it. People will do what they do, but might as well think it through.

Since when is justifying a decision with logic bogus? Aren't we adults? I agree-splitting hairs is just that, splitting hairs. But if it gets someone who doesn't like to think very often to wear a helmet, so be it.

Nope sorry. j/k I'm sure there are.

I googled this bad boy this look like a pretty sweet climb, Ill get that added to my list of routes to hit up. Nice. I'm not a big sporto but that is my favorite sport route. And it is overrated IMO. PS- Link up the pitches. And skip some of the bolts if you want hardman points.

Depends on the type of mixed you are talking about.

You make some good points. It is good to first remember the source of this discussion (An experienced climber on a moderate route who sustained worse injury as the result of not wearing a helmet). Also, all other things aside, we are talking about probability. Actually, we are guessing about probability. You saying that steeper climbs are less dangerous and me saying that people fall more on hard climbs are just statements at worst and at best based on anecdotal and personal experience. I still stand by my logic. Assuming the premise is true- which I think we disagree on. Now I just noticed something else. You made a logical jump that isn't called for. I agree when you say that the steepness of a climb and the experience of the climbers that do the climb increase the safety overall, assuming that the free fall from a steep climb doesn't result in a swing directly into the wall (let's assume this isn't going to happen). But this doesn't prove that harder climbs are safer than easier climbs because there are other factors making easier climbs less dangerous. I believe one of them is the pump factor. I will almost never fall of a route 5.9 and below. But above that and things get a little foggy at times. The fact that I am not going to fall off a route is something to consider when deciding whether or not to wear a helmet (rockfall aside for the moment)- because a helmet will help protect your head during a leader fall to some extent.

Mixed.

At very least it generated some discussion.

What? You were? I don't think I saw you. I left the TH around 10.

I really don't want to get involved but I had a similar reaction Atreides. The guy wasn't meaning any harm..I think. It is a reality that we might face at some point.

I beg to differ. A difficult route is more likely to see a fall. A fall is more likely to result in an injury. And a helmet is more likely to prevent a brain injury. Make sense?

To chime in- I am in a similar situation and am considering this very thing. I did Europe in dirtbag style when I graduated and it was a great experience. I spent so little money over there it is insane. And ya- Don't burn bridges- unless completely neccesary

Ya. Or drink the beers before you do the route like the guys in front of us and then leave most the gear behind.

That is ironic about how climbers in the 5.10 range stop wearing helmets because not only are they the people who are probably climbing more often (and thus more likely to be struck by some objective hazard) but they are also climbing harder routes. But it's true from what I've witnessed. It only takes one screw up to ruin your life.

I placed a couple of those on the N face of Chair this season (like that but quite a bit shorter). They are my dad's from who knows when. Not to bad once you get it started. And it felt bomber. Probably the last time I do that though.

http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/6362691

maybe they are. go prove them wrong.

I can. There are some blank faces up there.

Thanks Gym. I thought I presented it fairly enough. I think some people talk out of both sides of their mouths when it comes to routes.

I hate to say it but their route database is really cool.