wesdyer

Thanks for the replies and ideas. Looks like there are plenty of great trips to be had, but on a daily basis I'll need to do more trail running, surfing, and mountain biking (or go to the climbing gym).

It looks like I'll probably be moving to the bay area soon, specifically the peninsula (Palo Alto area). I am already starting to feel a longing for the mountains. What are the options for crag (trad or sport) climbing, alpine climbing, and other outdoor activities (I love trail running too)? I know that there is definitely world class climbing at Yosemite, but how far away is that really? Also, it seems like the Sierras might be reachable on the weekends. Is that true? Is there climbing close by that can be used more regularly for training etc. Furthermore, I love dreaming and planning my objectives for the next year. I have no idea where to start or what I should be thinking about especially in terms of alpine objectives. For reference, I was originally excited about doing Dragontail's Backbone ridge, the North Ridge of Mount Baker, and a trip to the Bugaboos this coming summer. Finally, are there any good places to meet other climbers in the bay area besides the local climbing gyms and whatever crags are close by. Thanks for the help. I already feel very sad about leaving my beloved Washington.

I'm very sad to hear this. My heart goes out to those involved and especially family and friends of the climber. It appears that all of the local media have picked up the story. Having been involved in other reported accidents, I never know how much to trust their account of things. Some of them are reporting the climber's name. So for what it is worth here it is. Seattle Times - includes name The News Tribune - includes most comprehensive account

Jon, it was fun climbing with you at Index last week. That looks like a fun place that I'll need to visit sometime. I'm glad to see Miho getting out and getting it done.

Great writing and photos. I had no idea that poo and rangers would be the crux of my future trip to the Wind River range.

Short version: Anyone have information about Iron Cap Mountain's east ridge? Beta or Pics? Long version I'm planning a trip on the Alpine Lakes High Route. The trip is just a scramble and so I'm not bringing technical gear. Normally, the route from Tank Lakes to Chetwoot goes to Iron Cap Pass and then down a valley and up into Azurite and Azure lakes before going across to Chetwoot. Some parties choose to traverse under Iron Cap Mountain and then take the north spur which is a mellow scrambling route. I was hoping to take a more direct route via Iron Cap Mountain's east ridge, but I could find little information about the east ridge. Beckey doesn't mention it and I couldn't find any trip reports here or on other sites with distinct pictures of the east ridge. Has anyone here been up that way? What is it like? Is it 3rd/4th/low 5th? Does anyone have any pictures? Here is the east ridge seen from the NNE in Google Earth. It looks like it would go as a scrambling route, but...

I'm really thinking seriously about getting the verts between your suggestion and what I read on Dane's blog.

Yes sir. I actually noticed you were from Monroe a number of years ago (long time lurker, recent poster). We should get together sometime. I head out to Index a few times a month (was there this morning and did GM and Heart of the Country) and of course I get into the mountains as often as I can. Yes, largely but also some winter climbing in the cascades. Now that I am replacing gloves again, I'm just generally rethinking my quiver. Yeah, you are right. I can mostly keep them dry 3 season unless I get into climbing steeper snow and then I invariably stick my hands into the snow as I climb or put in placements. In winter, I really struggle to keep them dry.

Great suggestions and I really appreciate you pointing me toward Dane's blog. Thanks.

Thanks. That is super helpful.

I love the pictures, especially the alleyway between the seracs. Absolutely beautiful. Thanks for sharing.

Anyone have a good suggestion where to practice steep snow climbing safely as well as self arrest practice?

Do you mostly just use it in the winter in the PNW? Do you use it less often spring/summer/fall?

Another follow up question is what does everyone do about self rescue in a situation with a beginning climber? I know that for the vast majority of cases, I can take care of first aid, rock rescue, crevasse rescue, etc. But when I'm with newer climbers, I just try not to think too much about what would happen if I was hurt badly. Recently, I've started to climb with newer climbers in group of at least 3 so that I have someone else who can do first aid or perform rescue. Any other thoughts on this?

Good point. Most of the time that I have taken beginners out it is to do just that - have a great time in the mountains (safely). So I guess this thread is really directed towards those kinds of adventures.

I think you make a very good point about the importance of gaining mountain skills and I think your conservative stance has quite a bit of value. Over the years, I've introduced people to mountaineering coming largely from two different backgrounds: backpacking and rock climbing. Each of them could gain valuable skills by focusing on the area they lack either cragging experience or scrambling in the mountains. Also, both groups tend to be light on snow travel experience.

We broke out the second tools on three sections: Winnie's slide, climbing out of the crevasse, and Hell's Highway. Winnie's slide and Hell's Highway were steep but not very long slopes. I think I would be very comfortable on Hell's Highway without a second tool but perhaps not as much on the upper half of Winnie's slide depending on snow conditions (we crossed late in the day in softer snow because we bivied above the slide). Since they are not very long, if you don't feel comfortable it would be easy enough to set protection and belay people up the slopes. In which case, it would be easy enough to bring a second tool for just the leader or have the partner who is more comfortable climb it and bring up the second. For the crevasse, it is a very very short section that is steep and depending on how the melt has gone it may or may not be the same. If it is possible to end run that crevasse it could be avoided otherwise some careful and judicious climbing would be needed with just a single tool. Personally, I would bring the second tool (as we did) and skimp on something else (we brought just a small array of passive rock protection). Or possibly just bring one extra tool for the leader.

Thanks for sharing the experience in Outward Bound. I loved the perspective and advice. Agreed. Loose rock + beginners is not a good combination. What I meant about the Tooth is not that it is difficult to manage the risk but that it has risk to be managed. It should not be thought of as a hike to an out of the way multi-pitch crag even if that is how it feels me to. There are spots (especially on the traverse from the first pass to pineapple pass on harder snow) that may warrant something other than encouragement to a newer partner who is tenuously walking on snow in light hikers without an ice axe.

A couple of years ago, I switched from using a Mammut Ultimate Hoody to a R1 + Houdini for my go to outerwear. I love the versatility of the combo although there are a few downsides: durability of the Houdini (especially in chimneys or on off-widths) and ability to shed a little water. I've been thinking about switching to a Gamma MX Hoody thinking it might be able perform just as well while also addressing some shortcomings. And hopefully it is a bit more stretchy, breathable, and longer (for a harness) than the Mammut Ultimate Hoody was. Has anyone out there tried both?

I recently lost some gloves that I'm looking to replace. Wondering what people think is the best system these days for typical climbing in the Cascades? I've typically carried 2-3 liner gloves with 1 pair of outer shells. I love having enough liners that I can rotate through them (I seem to always get them wet even when I try very very hard not to). But, I've found that I really dislike the lack of dexterity of the outer shell gloves. I have also climbed with those insulated atlas work gloves. They work well unless I need to get my hands into snow in early season.

Nice! I love that route! The belay from the top of P2 is awesome.

Sounds like a nice (short) somewhat formal talk setting the ground rules isn't a bad idea.

Sounds like a great strategy. I think beginning glacier routes usually follow this pattern: Mount Hood and Mount Baker come to mind. But beginning alpine rock routes in the Cascades often do not: the Tooth and the Beckey route on Liberty Bell for example. I've climbed the Tooth twice both times with another climber on his/her first alpine rock climb. Admittedly, my experience was in May/June both times so there was still significant snow on the ground. While the approach is largely straight forward there were a couple of times that we crossed very hard snow that while more or less flat had undesirable runouts into trees below. I'm thinking specifically of the traverse from the first pass around to Pineapple pass as well as the snow approach from the valley up to the basin below the Tooth. As for the Beckey route, you can see my trip report from earlier this year where my friend broke his tib/fib on the deproach in the Beckey gully. No, he wasn't a new climber (I've climbed Sahale, Rainier, and many other mountains with him). Yes, I was boot axe belaying (lowering) the new climbers down the slope. But afterwards, when I talked with SAR about the climb they said that they get several calls a year just for that gully from a combination of steeper snow, loose rock, and inexperienced climbers. In fact, a friend I talked with later who is close to finishing up his Bulger 100 said that he had an incident in that same gully from a slip on snow. You could also make a strong case that the standard route on Rainier, the DC, has these transition zones on the lower Cleaver and on the rock ridge before Ingraham flatts. It is exactly situations like these that have got me thinking about this.

As I've been thinking and researching a bit to find how to better address the risk, I've learned a few things. First, the "gray area" that I was talking about is often termed the "transition zone" (and if any mods are listening, I think it would be great to change the title of my thread to reflect that). Here are a couple of quotes about that area that I think are relevant: So clearly, I'm not alone in thinking that transition zones are often where we are vulnerable especially in the context of bringing along a less experienced climber whose needs/feelings/fears we are not as in tune with as our own. In fact, as I think about it more, I feel that I need to be more intentional about what I do in terrain transitions. I need to actively reevaluate what my party needs to do to be safe.

Excellent thoughts. I think that is right on. Although it sounds easy, I know it is tempting to choose plans that satisfy personal goals and perhaps compromise group safety. That has worked well for me too, especially when the snow isn't quite as hard and it is easier to create larger steps. Although, one of the close calls that I've seen was when we did just this and one member of the group decided they wanted to take a different route at the end and left the kicked in steps. They slipped and slide down the slope a ways. And certainly, your point about practicing a lot is spot on. I really like this. I think I will try to set an atmosphere from the beginning of the trip where we actively discuss safety. You are right that people won't often volunteer their discomfort because they feel self-conscious and sometimes it is hard to gauge it internally from a more experienced point of view where your perception of the risk is entirely different. Setting the right tone and being very perceptive of how the other climbers are doing sounds like the right strategy. Do you have any specific suggestions that you use to help set the proper tone? (Besides frequently inquiring and making everyone feel comfortable with taking the necessary steps to protect the group) Although I regularly use boot axe, hip, horn, etc belays, I haven't yet tied people in on a bowline (except playing around at home). That does sound like a great way of increasing the safety without needing to get all the gear out every time you cross a small snow slope or 3rd class terrain on the approach. I think you are totally right. People get tired and they start getting sloppy with their foot work and feel rushed and avoid adequately managing the risk.