ASmith

Dane, What can I say, thank you so much you made my morning. I really appreciate your generosity and eagerness to openly share all of your vast knowledge, experience, and thoughts that I can learn from and of course your opinions which are just that..... your opinions. Thank you again, as you have made my morning by reminding me that I'm so blessed and to give thanks everyday that we all live in a country where we have the right to have our own thoughts and opinions and most importantly to be able to express them, and our experiences, in an open public forum where we can openly express them without fear of being attacked for them. Unfortunately, not everyone in this world can say that. May the good things of life be yours in abundance, not only at the beginning of the new year but for, and in, all things thru out the year. Allen

No. Excuse me, I said top loader in my last post and meant front loader. The washer I used was a commercial front loader without any agitators in it. I also set it to gentle cycle and used Nix Wax Down soap. When I compare my FF product with my FA product, IMO there really is not a comparison but again, I admit, I'm not a fabric material, sewing, or climbing gear manufacture or design expert. Will I be using this jacket for rainier this year, probable. Will I be taking it to Aconcagua, Denali, and Cho Oyu, this year, no.

Dane, Which fleece product did you buy... the Bat hoodie? BTW.... As I stated, I was given the jacket and due to BO odor in it from someone who may have worn it I "had" to wash the jacket. IMHO, any down jacket should be able to withstand at least a few gentle washings in a commercial front loader as recommended by every manufacture. I don't know about you but I'm not interested in "fragile" gear. And.. you are right for 50% off of $269.00 you probably can't find a better jacket with quality and fragility issues aside but I said that previously and time will tell as more folks buy them. You also give up having a great weather protectant outer fabric like Gore, Epic, or Event to protect your life giving precious down with the XV as well as it is a product made in China with all that that entails as well. It's always comes down to price vs. quality and with that I think FA did a great job in designing gear for a specific target group at a low price point. Personally, for only $130.00 more I would buy the FF front point but the XV really doesn't directly compare to the Front Point in features for an apples for apples comparision. However, for the $130.00 or so sales price it is a great jacket and everyone should own one at that price. And... it is warm, and its working great for shoveling snow in the driveway and to walk the dog

http://www.eddiebauer.com/FIRST-ASCENT/First-Ascent-Mens/First-Ascent-Mens-Insulation/index.cathttp: You get what you pay for and the quality is not up to par. I was given a Peak XV from the "design team" and after only a few uses and the first washing in a front loader on gentle cycle several baffles failed in the back, under and in the arms. At least two panels in the back were void of any down as was under the arms. The arms looked like Pop Eye arms with all the down in the cuff area. There is simply no comparison to this jacket to a WM or a FF. Nothing about them is comparable. If you need/want a cheap jacket for one or two trips then the Peak XV will fit the bill. Then when EB had there Fleece 1/4 zips on sale for 19.00 I bought two. Again, no comparison to the R1 or other quality layering pieces. It is clear that EB has targeted the entry level climber that only climbs once or not very often and hence only needs a pierce to last a trip or two and is seeking low end price point climbing clothing and the quality is on par with that. Kind of like the majority or entry level RMI Rainier client. And for water bottle pockets? You don't need water bottle pockets for Rainier.

I have one, has always worked as promised. A happy wife is a happy life!

WTB, tickets for Banff Film in Northbend Please email thesmithgroup(at)windermere.com or call 425-200-7163

You think encouraging youth to work for their money instead of waiting for free handouts is negatively adding to the world? Its cause of that that every kid out there refuses to work for their money. You want cams go get a fucking job like every other person out there, its called reality. Where did I say anything about encouraging youth not to work in my post? What I was commenting about is people who make posts and statements like this do not add anything positive to the world. "Every Kid" ???? Pretty broad general and ridiculous statement isn't? Without taking any time to prove how ignorant your comments are, Quit embarrassing yourself.

Dane, I'll support you 100%. Let me know how I can help as well. I think the hardest part of this would be to correctly identify the receiptants but I also know that you will do this as best as can be done. I would like to suggest a post dedicated to the precipitants and their thoughts as well so that others can see for themselves the difference, even a small amount voluntarism or giving can make in not only their lives but in the lives of others as well. Dane, I would encourage you and all others not to let the "small thinkers" of the world dampen the spirt and add more negatively to the world. There will always be those who always want to dump on anything and everyone regardless of their own pitiful lives as there feeling sorry for the decisions they made and the situations that they caused for themselves. Garbage in = Garbage out. The universe has a way to assure that everyone receives in proportion to what they give-out as a value to others, it is a universal law and guaranteed to happen. I have seen it time and time again. It so often seems those same sorry folks look for and expect favor but never offer anything of themselves to others, but, in amazement, they expect it in return. Tis the season, no?

"the hille jannu seems to get more bang for buck and greater versatility. the hille jannu seems to offer greater space without a huge weight penalty." IMO, think you made the right choice. You will love the Hille. Call Petra or Stuart Craig and talk to them or go to thier Redmond office and take a walk thru and try and see one for yourself. I love the Hille hoop tents for everything but ledges, and for ledges and small platforms their high camps tents like the Jannu is great and has been proven even on Everest and K2 now. BTW, I have a brand new MH Trango 3 for sale to make room for another Hille.

I would agree 100%. http://estore.websitepros.com/1764795/-strse-68/Hilleberg-Jannu-Ultralight-Tent/Detail.bok Smaller, still lighter and still more room. I had an EV2, great tent, and for me it was too small more of a one man tent especially in winter use and I prefer having a vestibule barrier.

I have several of the HB tents including the Kaitium 3GT and would highly recommend them, they are simply the best with the most room to weight and simply to set up without crawling inside etc... and the folks there are great to work with and stand behind there stuff 100%.

http://estore.websitepros.com/1764795/-strse-167/Hilleberg-Kaitum-2-GT/Detail.bok IMO, Just as light, bomber and twice the space.

EV2= 1 man tent

Dan everyone I have had the pleasure of speaking with about Mchale packs have only good things to say. I know that in years past Dan's packs have been known to be the most comfortable, the best load carriers, and absolutely bomb proof even maybe too much so at the expense of being too heavy to accomplish that. Over the years Dan seems to have made a lot of changes in designs and materials to keep up-to-date with technology with all of the good stuff his packs are known for and now makes much lighter packs but still out of the best materials. I know it is really a joy to use my and I find myself looking forward to using it, odd as it may seem. You know what I find interesting here, is that with most great products you always find a lot of happy and impressed clients and usually always at least a few unhappy ones, that is expected. However, with Mchale packs I have never met the latter and before I order a new one I would be interested in hearing from anyone with positive, and even more helpful negative, experiences or input. There has to be someone.

Price has nothing to do with it. Although higher price in my experience is usually associated with a far superior product. You know when you find a product that is so nice, works so perfect for you that you are always excited to always use it? When it flawlessly out preforms everything that you have ever tried and not by a little but by a ton? And each and every time you use it, it is purely pleasure and bliss? And everyone you know or meet who also tries it has the same opinion and/or experience? Then, while not mandatory, it is almost obligatory to tell others so they too can enjoy the same experience. Cheers! BTW, Regarding cost: Dyneema® 60 WorkSack Item# 600247 $650.

Nope, you are not the same person I was referring to. However, I do believe that several weekends ago we may have ran across each other at the bottom of the Muir snow field if you were resting with a partner when I inquired about if you had any salt as I had a leg that kept cramping up and you gave me a hand full of cashews if I recall. During our conversation you loudly complained about your pack and went as far as to show me the marks and bruises resulting from on your hips and like the other person offered to sell me your pack for cheap mostly from what I perceived as frustration and displeasure. A conversation about Mchale packs followed and I suggested that since you work at the store it only would make sense for you to call crackers (CILO) as they seem to have a good rep and a good product and I'm sure they would take care of you. I did also offer you the opportunity to try my pack, but I don't think you ever did try my pack on. Welcome! and Many thanks again for your help, and its good to hear that you got your pack issues all figured out as I thought you would. Its a great pack.

REI, Marmot and F. Friends all have them. Whitaker's has them on sale too.

"CCW, Wild Things and Cilo pretty much cover the best of the climbing packs." I would also concur. I love the Cilo for Alpine use as well and would like to buy one. However, this post is titled "Expedition pack recommendation". To me there is a huge difference between back packing or expedition type climbing hauling loads and short and fast alpine climbing rigs for one day or weekend packs for quick trips to the crags in the cascades as well as consideration for styles such as Alpine or expedition trips with multi-week trips to the large mountain ranges. Two different packs for two different uses. I for one would not use a climbing sac for an expedition trip nor would I carry 40-60 pounds in a alpine type "sac" as I value comfort over self imposed suffering, but I'm sure others will. Just last week I ran into a female climber coming down from Rainier wearing a new Cilo who works in the industry, at a climbing store in Seattle, who was suffering with 40 or so pounds and extremely unhappy with her choice of packs for what she was using in for. I suggested she call crackers who she said she bought it from. She offered me her alpine sac on the spot for $100.00 several times, I graciously declined. To prove my point, I let her carry my load from mid snowfield down for a while which had 65-70 pounds of water and lead in it ( training hike) and she said it was far more comfortable and easy to carry. IMO, there is not one pack for everyone that does everything no different than one boot, or one tent, but what the heck do I know. There are a lot of great specialized packs out there.

I just bought two pairs of BD Guide Gloves for my wife, anyone using these? I think BD makes a warmer glove however I got these for $70.00 ea. so I thought that I would give them a try. What warm gloves would you suggest?

http://www.mchalepacks.com/ultralight/detail/UnLtd.htm Essentially, this is a newer version of the one I use. Mine is a 43-43-43 with extension. Mine is an older version which I bought used from one of the moderators on this board. However old, outdated and not custom made for me, it still far out performs any pack that I have tried. When I purchased it I had 7 packs to test against including a Cilo, BD, Arx Bora 80, Gregory Baltora and Denali since so many liked the Denali, 2 different Osprey's and a few others. None of them including the Gregory Denali even came close to carry the loads like the Mchale. All I can tell you is that whatever weight you carry in the Mchale will feel at least 50% less than ANY other pack. I would think, if price is an issue, that Dan could make one for you in less expensive materials like they used to be done, that is, without the Dyneema and Spectra etc.... You have to remember that a Mchale pack does not cut any corners and they are simply made so far superior and made the best it can be which one would expect to cost more. With a Mchale, you will be buying a pack that will last a lifetime. I see so many that suggest this pack and that pack for load hauling and I can guarantee you that if they actually tested all of these packs against a Mchale the Mchale will win every time. Most of the packs I see recommended for loads are simple alpine type packs. But the fact is they don't even come close for that purpose. I see folks all the time buy the less expensive packs and think that they are better, however, one only knows what they know!

With this though, you get what you pay for in spades! Well worth it, no, more than well worth it. You can demo one, call Dan Mchale and talk to him. The three most important things, pack, boots, and bag. Don't cheap on these or you'll always wish you hadn't.

I have used several of the packs mentioned above BD, Osprey, Art, MH, Cilo, etc....and then tried/switched to these packs. http://www.mchalepacks.com/ultralight/index.htm After switching I found that whatever weight I was carrying, whether training with 80 pounds plus or climbing, it felt as half. Much better by 50% than any pack I had ever used, hands down without question, not even close. In addition, the pack can be made to convert or strip down to usually three different sizes ranging from an ultra-light small under 3 pound/3000 alpine pack to a huge 7000 plus/Denali size Xped pack to take more than I can carry. It always fits perfect and is the most comfortable as it is custom fitted and has features not found in any other pack made, plus I can add or subtract features to build it exactly for what I want. Every person that I have ever stopped in the field and let them wear my pack, even though it does not fit them remarked that it felt much better than their own, regardless. Every climber or hiker that I have had the pleasure of speaking with that owns one of these (in one form or the other) have all told me that they would never consider using any other pack. Here is my pack for big trips. http://www.mchalepacks.com/ultralight/detail/UnLtd.htm At 5 pounds it holds over 7000 and with just a few items removed down to 4 pounds and it still will hold over 70 pounds and I can still get it down to 3 pounds for a alpine/day pack. Need more room just add removable side pockets, shovel pockets, wand/ski pockets, bear canisters, etc.... you get my point. I would highly suggest anyone even considering a new pack will be doing themselves an injustice if they do not seriously consider and try one. It will simply change your entire climbing, packing, and trekking experience 100%. Why compromise and settle for less?

I like the OR Alti for mitts but I find I use gloves 95% of the time and mitts only as a back-up. I recently took a look at the BD mitt but if I'm correct the shell is not seam taped so I past on them. So.... I'm looking for a better (best) glove combination. What have you all found to be the best for you for say Denali, Cho Oyu and the Himalaya? BTW, I have seen a few using the HEAT warming systems in both gloves and boots now for summit days for insurance.

Either at Lake Serene Mt. Index or possible Snoqualmie corridor maybe Lk. Annette.

You will love your Hilleburg. I too have 2 newt MH EV-3 and Trango 3 models and just bought a Kaitum 3 GT and prefer it much more, bigger, lighter and just as heavy duty.