Serenity

R.I.P. Sad story

Maine looks sweet. Cool report, pretty unique actually.

I love nothing more than keeping my heart rate at 180 for extended periods of time.

L. Paul Bremer wrote an article into the Iraqi Constitution exempting PMC's from prosecution under Iraqi law. Uncle Jerry was no dummy. Put that in your pipe and smoke it Al-Maliki. I seem to remember him being there during the days at the house of pain. Hey Jens. Long time brother. We'll have to go bust up some line deckers in Lilooet soon. I know you crave logger/hockey player blood.

I agree about the picture in the rain, very cool!

Taken to PM.

Graham, Thanks for your input. No offense taken whatsoever, and I like debate. I just don't care for rabble rousing. I don't believe the average American really understands just how ineffective the Iraqi government is, nor how duplicitous the Arab mindset is. Until you have encountered it, worked with it, lived with it, you'll never understand. It's like KNOWING up is up, and down is down, and when you try and tell them that they have a million boring anecdotal stories to confound your logic with. You would be better of talking to a brick wall. They do this purposely to stall to better their position, and will continually, as demonstrated in the past, make concessions they have no intent of honoring. This has proven as fruitless for us, as it was during the Vietnam war. It simply allows the enemy time to regroup, and rethink its strategy. There are those who surmise Al-Maliki is working on Sadr's behalf, despite the fact that he exists due to our good will. He's truly a piece of excrement of the vilest kind. This is what you are seeing in regards to this latest Blackwater event. Our enemy clearly understands that their is a paramilitary force multiplier in their midst, in the form of a contracted force, made up of highly trained and motivated individuals. They know they cannot defeat the US militarily, they understand they can win through PROPAGANDA. This is an example. They don't belong to any treaty organization and the thought of them now playing the card they are playing, as the Shiites are losing control, is nothing short of laughable. It's power politics. In the end, I highly doubt their will be the prosecution of anyone, and it will end up costing us, the taxpayer, more money. A lot of these contractors will be folded into expanded FED/LE roles, given full retirement, training they won't need, etc. As far as the recent history of the dawning of close protection specialists. Long drawdown, mission curtailment, lack of foresight, lack of critical thinking, based in reality, federal law, etc. Long story short is partially this. Army CID was taken off the job of protecting Bremer because they were deemed incompetent to do the job. Their attitudes and demeanor, age, general lack of experience and firearms skills were not up to the tasking. It was painfully obvious to those of us who were on the ground at the time and observed this firsthand. The teams that were brought in did such a stellar job combined with an infrastructure, that fostered an environment of close cooperation. Marine security guards stand fixed posts, and guard embassies. They were seen as under trained for mobile protection. This is not to say they couldn't be brought up to speed, not by any means. However, the size of the military going into this conflict was inadequate, and their just wasn't the time or the vision to get this training done. Furthermore, the bulk of experienced operational types had neared retirement, reached retirement, or left service during the Clinton presidency. Their was a huge vacuum of experience and talent that was all the sudden needed, and being a FAG (Former Action Guy) was all the sudden back in vogue. Many did not want to reenter the service, because the service lacks initiative. I have personally made the statement that many of these types of positions can be folded back into a traditional system at the right time. The DoD and DoS is going to have to change in order for that to happen.

Another internet tough guy Fairweather? They tend to get rather shy and quiet in person.

Yeah? Did you notice all those stories are being spoon fed to you from Iraqi news conferences? Plus, WHAT are you really adding by posting links to stories on a subject you really know very little about? Do you REALLY believe these men are guilty of a war crime and charges brought against them by the Maliki government? Have you been paying attention to anything I said regarding Maliki's open alignment with Al-Sadr? Al Sadr has ordered the murders of hundreds perhaps thousands of American service members via the Mahdi Army. Do you know which side you are on? Nice photo. I know those guys. I took this one myself in 2004.

Security firms do not arrest Iraqi's, and Blackwater in particular does not engage in any program outside of strict government oversight, so lumping an article in on top of their pigpile is indicative of the blanket treatment/sensationalistic approach to dealing with issues that have permeated the increasingly irresponsible media/consumer user for years. The irresponsibility is in this type of journalism. The focus SHOULD be on the corrupt and ineffective Iraqi government, but clearly there is a segment of the American population, just like during Vietnam that revels in rolling in shit. Perhaps it is all just indicative of a population that has no stomach for any real work. How come there wasn't a big long thread on this website about the kidnap and murder of three American soldiers by Iranian trained operatives a few months ago? One of those young men's bodies has not been recovered and is listed missing. Where was all your indignation and judgment passing then?

Apparently they all got smart, gave up their guns, and got law degrees. Sneaky Haji's!

Maybe the Malaki government would be more productive if it wasn't trying to stick it's nose up Sadr's ass, instead of trying to screw the agencies who are actually trying to help them? How many insurgents have they publicly prosecuted? I'm all for pulling out of Iraq and watching them tear one another apart one another apart in the vacuum.

Like those old school tools. You could almost be Scottish (and I mean that with complete respect).

Legal voodoo from a JAG type buddy of mine. ************************************ Iraq as war zone, hostile or combat zone there can be agreements; especially as we are not 'hostile' the Iraqi government. It is not an illegitimate question. Status-of-Forces-Agreement (SOFA) according to the DoD Dictionary is "an agreement that defines the legal position of a visiting military force deployed in the territory of a friendly state. Agreements delineating the status of visiting military forces may be bilateral or multilateral. Provisions pertaining to the status of visiting forces may be set forth in a separate agreement, or they may form a part of a more comprehensive agreement. These provisions describe how the authorities of a visiting force may control members of that force and the amenability of the force or its members to the local law or to the authority of local officials. Also called SOFA. See also civil affairs agreement." SOFA is for "forces;" i.e. military types. The agreements are specific to each country that we have diplomatic relations with. Usually, military types (DoD) personnel are immune from prosecution in the performance of their duties. If outside of military duties ("not in the line of duty and due to own misconduct" type incidents) then the case will be dealt with as prescribed in the SOFA and the U.S. Embassy will be engaged. It doesn't mean that you have a "get out of jail free card" at all. It only means that the U.S. Embassy staffers will do everything that they can to ensure that you are afforded all the rights and protections possible under the host nation's law. The next type of document is a an agreement between the U.S. and the host nation called Administrative and Technical Status. This is normally for embassy staffs. Foreign governments can and sometimes do extend to U.S. personnel assigned to military exercises (training, FID, etc.) a status equivalent to that accorded to the administrative and technical staffs of foreign embassies. This status differs from that accorded to “diplomatic agents” (as defined by the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations) and provides U.S. military personnel no immunity from the civil and administrative jurisdiction of the host country for “acts performed outside the course of their duties.” The administrative and technical status is described in Article 37 of the Vienna Convention. It is entirely consistent with the provisions of the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court, which recognizes signatory nations’ “obligations under international law” concerning such matters (Part 9, Article 98). Diplomatic Status is for the true diplomats and not most of the staffers. Don't quote me on this one but I think it is position/billet driven for true diplomatic status. Sovereign Territory is another important concept to understand. U.S. Flagged vessels enjoy the right of sovereign territory as well as the U.S. Embassy and grounds. The host nation cannot legally come onto either for arrest or any other reason without express permission. If it is a personnel custody issue it can get dicey but the Ambassador or Ship's Captain will usually stay pretty darn close to the letter of the standing agreements that govern the particular situation. That is why sailors and marines were usually hustled onboard the ship whenever there was any type of incident ashore; soldiers and airmen had to rely more on embassy and DATT for assistance and did their best to get them engaged ASAP or the troops to the embassy compound if at all possible. The problem in Iraq as you noted is that there is no SOFA. It was my buddy's take that this had been address as early as the CAP and evidently still on the back burner under the current 'government.' Early on there was NO Government to draw up an agreement with and now it just hasn't risen that high on the priority list to see daylight. And SOFA only deals with U.S. Forces and not contractors DoD or otherwise. The BW PSD apparently is under a DoS contract so I don't think that would work anyway. There was a recent change by Congress to the USC 10 that made allowances for DoD contractor to be subject to the UCMJ. This was to give commanders some leverage but still begs their legitimate status within Iraq or any other country for that matter. BW has held that they fall under the same provisions and protections as DoD and DoS and that may get tested in the case over the Fallujah law suit.

I dunno. Are the dildo barstools you put at your kitchen table working out for you?

Yes, I do have plenty of insight. FACT: Easy formula for success: become a self-proclaimed expert on a subject that nobody who knows what the fuck they're talking about will never publicly address. This is the hack passing you your information. FACT: The Iraqi government is trying to save face, because FACT....they suck so bad, and everyone knows it. It's called propoganda, obscuration. BW was initially a high end training facility providing firearms, and tactical training facilities. It existed partially because of the drawdown which began during President Bush Sr's tenure, which carried over to President Clinton's 2 terms. The 1st ASSUMPTION many of you make is that BW is carrying out a military mission, which they are NOT. The military has no ready equivalent to DS Special Agent. The military does not train people or carry the mission of dignitary protection. That's typically a federal law enforcement role. Diplomatic Security Services provide protection for State Department and special services persons. NOT THE MILITARY. The only units who have in the past performed those roles (for specific reason) are CAG (SFOD-Delta) and DEVGRU (old SEAL TEAM 6). Apparently they are too busy to do that kind of work now. Ya think? If you care to sit down some time, I'd be happy to explain the process of becoming a special agent for the US government, the amount of money it takes to recruit, investigate someones background, pay to send them to FLETC or some other equivalent academy, the cost of carrying a GS-X to retirement, COLA, moving allowances, etc. Versus the temporary hiring of thousands of necessary, and highly trained former SPECOPS/SWAT team members who bring all the skills to the table, and then are released when their services are no longer needed. If all of these guys were being trained as agents, it would be MORE costly, and not TIMELY. Furthermore, Blackwater is a seemingly easy target for media journalists looking for a sensational story. Truth is, Raytheon, Boeing, Northrup-Grunman, eat up a far greater share of defense budget than tiny Blackwater ever will.

I am pretty sure there is not a single reporter in the world that knows more about this stuff than I do. I'd be happy to educate you, but I'm not going to pay for your dinner to do so. I see it as zapping some light and space into your brain cavity. In the meantime you can continue to preach your capitulation routine on the deaf eared.

If that will give him a forum to fixate on, I'd be thrilled to start a thread right now.

Dan, Keep in mind that Iraq is a violent place. For every incident you hear or read about, whatever the nature of the incident, there are perhaps hundreds more that go unnoticed. It is the nature of reporting to try and sensationalize the events that a particular reporter might find themselves privy to. The ROE dictates the level of force permissible. This ranges from alert behavior to the right to repel deadly force. The force continuum is similar to your rights as a civilian. Force may be met with force as necessary. SOP varies from team to team, and depends on the environment, threat level, specific threat, etc. There are hard and fast rules, but in war, Mr. Murphy tends to intrude frequently. Some people tend to see this whole issue with such a jaded perspective that they are almost totally unable to see past their preconceived notions. Dru, you are one of those people, and therefore you tend to not get listened to much. Your spew is tired, tired, tired.

I haven't worked in Iraq since 2005, and things change there. US Code is what they would be prosecuted under, if there were evidence of criminal activity. No one is going to throw an American under the bus for that corrupt piece of useless shit government to score some brownie points with whatever tribe is in fashion for the week. "Like the incident that occurred in the article?" You mean the one where they were attacked by what the US terms "enemy combatants" and defended themselves and their motorcade against annihilation? Where they lawfully defended themselves, according to SOP written by State Department attorneys specifically for these types of situations? You mean the one where they dusted 8 of those sumbitches for trying to kill them? You mean the incident where all the AMERICANS came home safe with no casualties? I call that winning, and here's a pat on the back boys. I'm not sure what you call that. Liability in war? BWAHAHAHAHA! I could TOTALLY understand that if we were talking about systematic murder of Iraqi's in a camp, but all that's going on is young Americans from all walks of life are over there trying to help those imbeciles out, and all that garbage over there wants to do is play little games, hell bent on murder, and theft. And all the while far lefties with no connection cry foul everytime something like this comes out, when they have no firsthand knowledge, and the media gets it all wrong.

Hey Porter, Everything in Iraq revolves around their greed during this unstable period. BW is the de facto paramilitary arm of the DoS, providing important protective services to dignitaries and politicians. No amount of Iraqi posturing or rhetoric is going to alter our stance to rightfully protect our personnel and our interests. The thought of Iraqi's prosecuting Americans involved in combat operations over there is completely inane. The government under Maliki is so incredibly corrupt that it is difficult to take anything they say with any amount of belief or conviction. I guarantee you there is some kind of financial reason or deep seated personal vendetta that is driving those idiots to make a proclamation of this magnitude. BW probably refused to pay some kick backs to those sorry a$$ jag-offs and now the spin doctors are going to turn it into a sideline circus sideshow. Eric Prince is actually a very good person, conscientious of the role his company is providing, and directs them to do everything they can to assist the military effort, working closely with civilian and military authorities to provide a much needed service in a difficult period. I do not work for BW, so I have no incentive to talk them up. The guys who get on with BW bring a lot of experience to the situation, and bring the same mentality and professionalism they carried with them through the SEAL teams, SWAT teams, or whatever operation they came from. The organization has become a target for low level journalists looking to bring attention to themselves by writing sensational pieces they know will catch certain groups attentions.

I'd love to take a few hours of my evening one of these days to discuss all this with you in person. What say you Patty Cake?

That article is a fluff piece. BW does not work under license beholden to the Iraqi government. It will affect nothing whatsoever. I see all the usual suspects getting gleefully (and ignorantly) wrapped around the axles again.

The brain trust hard at work again. Good job, keep it up everybody!

I notice in your signature block you proclaim yourself a man of few words. Perhaps you could do us all a favor and become a man of even fewer words? Like none, zero, zilch.