RedNose

Let's say I break into your house. A lady wrote this a while back. Her point: Recently large demonstrations have taken place across the country protesting the fact that Congress is finally addressing the issue of illegal immigration. Certain people are angry that the US might protect its own borders, might make it harder to sneak into this country ad, once here, to stay indefinitely. Let me see if I correctly understand the thinking behind these protests. Let's say I break into your house. Let's say that when you discover me in your house, you insist that I leave. But I say, "I've made all the beds and washed the dishes and did the laundry and swept the floors. I've done all the things you don't like to do. I'm hard working and honest (except for when I broke into your house). According to the protesters: · You are Required to let me stay in your house · You are Required to add me to your family's insurance plan · You are Required to Educate my kids · You are Required to Provide other benefits o me and to my family (my husband will do all of your yard work because he is also hard working and honest, except for that breaking in part). If you try to call the police or force me out, I will call my friends who will picket your house carrying signs that proclaim my RIGHT to be there. It's only fair, after all, because you have a nicer house than I do, and I'm just trying to better myself. I'm a hard-working and honest, person, except for well, you know, I did break into your house. And what a deal it is for me! I live in your house, contributing only a fraction of the cost of my keep, and there is nothing you can do about it without being accused of cold, uncaring, selfish, prejudiced, and bigoted behavior. Oh yeah, I DEMAND that you to learn MY LANGUAGE, so you can communicate with me. Why can't people see how ridiculous this is? Only in America.

I would like to say I have skied the short chutes to the east (left side of the picture) in 2000.

It's generally regarded in the military that the worse you suffered the more honorable your service. Sitting it out in a nuke sub as compared to enduring indirect fire on the eastern front in Stalingrad? My vote goes to the grunt. Someone please win this debate, so I can look away from this trainwreck!

Agreed that we need to take our foreign policy in a sensible direction, but I view Nancy Pelosi and Hillary with the same distrust as George Bush and Cheney.

I am of the opinion that it is going to be up to the American people to reach common ground and concensus because our politicians have grown too segregated and devisive to serve the common interest. I don't always agree with everything that everyone states here, but I think it's better that we talk at all. Like all crimes, you have to trace motive, and opportunity and figure out where the money trail leads to. Exxon Corp comes to mind. I'm not for pulling out. My strategy would involve pulling US conventional assets back to man large permanent bases, sending loyal forces out to the borders of Iran and Syria, and clandestinely arming the various competing factions until they wear themselves out. At this pace 3-4 years would be sufficient. Any others?

Based on that logic we would have lost the 2nd World War because Dresden, Tokyo, Hiroshima, Nagasaki would all have been "Off Limits" targets because we're just "too damned high and moral" for that sort of chicanery. ???? I get where you're going, but your solution is a hindsight solution which offers nothing for the present tense. I am a veteran with 5 ongoing years in combat, I can say without reservation that it is not my "honor system" to respect other veterans, nor is it anyone elses, it's an individual thing. Maybe for those REMF suckwads, but once you reach a certain point that is not the case. Reference Band of Brothers where a D-Day/Market Garden vet of the platoon is snubbed because he did not participate in Bastogne. Same-same. Cops are the same way. We all eat our own in the end.

There are many levels of veterans. Please identify your units, job classifications, whether or not you've served combat duty in Grenada, Panama, Somalia, Haiti, Desert Storm/Shield, OIF, OEF and if it applies which deployment phases. I think this will help seperate the men from the boys.

Nobody's arguing that the ADMINISTRATION has botched numerous facets of the war, considerable blame placed higher than others, but Democrats and sideshow Republicans have blood all over their reptilian scales, and all the rhetoric in the world won't change that. I had zero access to classified information in 2002, and I never for one second believed that Saddam posed a threat to our sovereign nation. Now if I layman can figure that out how can a Senator with years in the White House, connections to every nook and cranny in the Pentagon, an Army of Boston trained analysts, fail to know the truth?

JosephH-Thanks for shedding some light on your service. I think I had you confused with another guy. Adios.

Joseph, I believed you claimed LRP team designation in a thread from 04, and when I inquired about your official unit I received nothing. This was in 04, and now again in 07. In my line of work claiming SPECOPS background without verification is tantamount to perjury even in a backwater forum like this one. As for Crux and Fear_Greed here's my take on responses like your's. If you had climbed a route 150 times, knew it backwards and forwards, every inch of every hold, and a guy like Steve House came on here and told you that you were incorrect you would fold over at the stomach, genuflect in a submissive posture, and admit you were in fact wrong. However, when someone who has spent over 4 years at the war comes here to offer a different perspective from the factory motif, you go all subject matter expert based on some news reports you love to jack off to, and start offering up Neocon hate speech. Frankly I find it boring. I've never voted for Bush, was opposed to the war in Iraq, and served 8 years under Bill Clinton. Yet, some of you will continue to be as small minded as the people you continue to try and critique from the sidelines. "It's not the critic that counts" So therefore, my short foray into your world here is over. It's a waste of time, and so are you. Furthermore, Fear_and_Greed, since you are a Canadian with no vested interest in the war in Iraq, paying no taxes, suffering no heartache, or misfortune as a result of US policy, if I were a moderator here I'd tell you to shut your fucking pie-hole, and keep your ass over in Cafe Sensitivo where you belong. I now return you to the RedNose actual.

What exactly are you bringing to the conversation here? Nothing, and you are a complete waste of time.

No one who ACTUALLY knows the answer to this question is in their right mind going to list response times to various codes. So good luck with that.

Did you think all day about what you were going to say here fucktard? I'm now going to return REDNOSE to the original owner so I don't have to listen to this shit from insignifiCUNT fuckers like you Crux. Tman take it easy, good debating with you. JosephH I'm still waiting for unit designation from you. The 3rd time I've asked for it in 4 years. In my world we call that posing. MattP good subject, but the headcases I generally want to put the thumbsKrews to are coming out of the woodwork and we can generally agree have little tolerance for that kind of anonymous shit talking. Later dudes. The war goes on despite the debate here.

So, are you actually attempting to claim there was a shred of legitimacy around Fieth's or the OoSP's activities? Because if that's the case, Dorothy, you really need to click those red heels three times. It's exactly the sort of activities the right used to warn about before they all rolled over into government stooges... Sorry, my intel gathering starts with my retina and ends with my brain stem telling me which strings to pull at that moment. What some think tank group in Washington D.C. has to do with me is nonexistent. That's my view. Now tell me, how does this affect YOU personally? When (IF) you were humping the triple canopy were you concerned about the scandals from the Phoenix Program? Just a different way to approach the issue is all. Now that I am back home for a short break, I once again get to see firsthand just HOW affected by the war everyone is. "Would you like a venti or a grande sir", "Can you believe that Anna died so tragically?"

I read the quarterly earning report from Exxon Corp. I think the underlying answer is hidden in plain sight. The origin is not. IMHO, the real architects of the war reside in the Kingdom. The House of Saud calls, the Crusader Army comes. They reasoned correctly that forcing American influence off of Saudi soil would cement their place by endearing them to an increasingly distrustful Muslim population, while forcing American geopolitical strategists to project US military power into Iraq to secure bases. This had the twofold purpose of driving the US into conflict with the hated Shiites, and allowing Saudi influence in OPEC to jack the prices up. The underlying reasoning being that "The US is making a move for the oilfields, we need to raise prices to teach them a lesson". Meanwhile rich Saudi investors pour money into Sunni militias who fight a proxy civil war with Iran on one side, and the US in the middle. And you think bombing Mecca sends the wrong signal how? If we developed one source of alternate energy that was sustainable and easily produced, we could send Arabia back to the middle ages in the space of one decade. I'd vote for that.

Sorry my mind has been elsewhere recently. This is news. Try to remember that I exist in a different vaccum. This news from Iraq, via the Jawa Report, should be top story. But since Anna Nicole Smith died, it won't get the coverage it deserves: Coalition forces in Iraq have delivered a series of stunning blows to al Qaeda in Iraq in the last 48 hours. A key aide to Abu Ayyub al-Masri, the man who replaced Abu Musab al Zarqawi as the leader of al Qaeda in Iraq, has been captured south of Baghdad. As A.J. Strata notes, the trail to the al Qaeda leader is fresh: the captured aide admitted to meeting with al Masri yesterday. Since Taji is north of Baghdad, these two al Qaeda IED cell leaders captured by the U.S. in West Taji are not the same as those above. That's four al Qaeda leaders captured. But four is such a lonely number. A facilitator of foreign fighters was captured by the Iarqi Army on the Syrian border. And foreign fighters tend to mean al Qaeda. Not to be outdone by the IA, the U.S. struck two houses where foreign fighters had gathered---13 jihadis dead. An "individual" associated with foreign fighter facilitation was in the targeted area. But wait, that's not all. Coalition Forces conducted an air strike Wednesday targeting an al-Qaida in Iraq-related vehicle-borne improvised explosives devices network near Arab Jabour. Intelligence reports indicated that this network is responsible for a large and devastating number of VBIED attacks in the Baghdad area. They are also responsible for IED and sniper attacks conducted against the Iraqi people and Iraqi and Coalition Forces. Building destroyed, everyone inside presumably dead. And another terrorist was captured in Taji. In addition to leading a bombing cell, he is also believed to be involved in taking Iraqis hostage and murdering them. Which would mean that he is either al Qaeda or one of the related organizations under the umbrella of the "Islamic State of Iraq". So, we have 6 al Qaeda leaders captured, and possibly dozens more killed. All in the last 48 hours. CENTCOM has details: Coalition Forces conducted an air strike Wednesday targeting an al-Qaida in Iraq-related vehicle-borne improvised explosives devices network near Arab Jabour. Intelligence reports indicated that this network is responsible for a large and devastating number of VBIED attacks in the Baghdad area. They are also responsible for IED and sniper attacks conducted against the Iraqi people and Iraqi and Coalition Forces. As Coalition Forces approached the targeted building they came under intense enemy fire. Ground forces assessed seven suspected terrorists were in the targeted building. Coalition Forces determined the targets too hostile for ground troops and called for air support. Two precision guided munitions were dropped destroying the targeted building and an associated structure. Coalition Forces continue to tear apart the al-Qaida leadership inside Iraq. This operation significantly reduces this VBIED terrorist network's ability to operate, and increases the safety of all Iraqi citizens, Iraqi forces, and Iraq's Multi-National partners. And more: Coalition Forces killed an estimated 13 terrorists during an air strike Thursday morning targeting a senior foreign fighter facilitator northeast of Amiriya. Intelligence reports indicated an individual associated with foreign fighter facilitation was in the targeted area. During the operation, Coalition Forces detained five suspected terrorists and found a cache including armor piercing ammunition. Information gained from the target area led Coalition Forces to two suspected foreign fighter safe houses where suspected terrorists were assembled. Coalition Forces observed the structures to confirm intelligence reports and engaged with precision guided munitions and rotary wing close air support, killing an estimated 13 terrorists. Coalition Forces continue to dismantle the foreign fighter networks. This operation significantly reduces foreign fighter facilitators’ ability to operate inside Iraq. And from MNF-I: FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE-- SUSPECTED SENIOR IED CELL LEADER DETAINED, TERRORIST SAFEHOUSE DESTROYED IN WEST TAJI BAGHDAD, Iraq – Coalition Forces detained two suspected terrorists believed to have ties to an al-Qaida improvised explosive device cell during a raid Wednesday morning in West Taji. Intelligence reports indicated one of the detainees has significant ties to a local IED cell and had connections to recent anti-Coalition Forces activities. Ground forces entered the targeted building and detained the two suspected terrorists without incident. Upon searching the house, ground forces found evidence of explosives material hidden inside the building and buried around the exterior. They also found several weapons and materials commonly used to make IEDs. In order to prevent the residence from being used for future sanctuary to terrorists, ground forces destroyed the building with strategically-placed charges. Before placing the charges, Ground forces escorted two women and nine children outside the house and to a neighbor’s home in order to ensure their safety. ImageCoalition Forces are making progress dismantling the al-Qaida terrorist network inside Iraq. The capture of these detainees and the destruction of another terrorist sanctuary reduces the ability of the terrorist network to operate, and increases the safety of all Iraqi citizens, Iraqi forces and Iraq’s Multi-National partners __________________

Big words for someone raised in the Religious Society of Friends. But you gave that up long ago you dope smoking, beer guzzling fiend.

The "BrainTrust" hard at work again I see. What latest and greatest government hating conspiracy are you all festering about now? I always thought Stovepiping was when you had a round fail to clear the ejection port and block your next round from chambering. That's really bad when you want to put one right into Al Sadr's brain cavity. Wow, Tman-you're really on a roll today. Keep up the good work everyone, it's really entertaining, sort of like an episode of Lost.

That should be a good fight. I'll be your huckleberry. It won't be much of a fight though, even when you were healthy.

I'd like to take this on tomorrow. But the short answer is I personally think it will be from a cell, and the infil routes for whatever they bring in will match drug trade doctrine. The southwest is a gaping hole right now. They have tried Canada and got caught, they read our papers and they see how the Mexican military, and drug cartels are easily coming in and engaging US military observers with small arms with zero response from our side. If a unit is able to cross the border, specifically engage a US MILITARY outfit on an X, with no repurcussion, then how hard is it going to be to get across the border in force with zero issue. They're probably already there and in place. Waiting. Iran is a much different enemy. I think right now, they are worried about our 1st strike capability, and don't want to provoke the US. Their footprint is all over Iraq right now, and they see the war drums are starting to beat in their direction. Through proxy Iran has probably done more than any Persian/Arab country to disrupt US influence in the middle east. They aren't dumb or rash. Their planners understand that the lynchpin in the middle east is Israel, and that is where they will focus on winning. Attacking the US, with a definitive Iranian stamp probably equals nuclear response. They won't risk that.

Segal, no it happened and you were there. You got knocked the F*ck out! http://www.judoinfo.com/discuss/index.php?showtopic=951 Oh, and was that the boat I have been sitting in for 4 years on the other side of the world? The one where it is now 0047 in the morning, and my suit and tie is a suit of plate armor? Like I said man, if you want to learn hang out. I'm glad to answer some questions, and the Tman AKA Trashkan is a VERY interesting guy to debate with. Sorry for my tone earlier Segal man. It's 1am, I have been here on this tour since last June, and I am tired. No excuse for being a dick I know. Word Tman. I'll fire this up again tomorrow if you want. I gotta rack out.

The divorce analogy is a good one. I'll accept that prima facia. The US does maintain a presence in Africa. The Ethopians were trained by US advisors, and they just sent some bad people running for the fences in Somalia. THIS is the real strength of SpecOps, Law Enforcement, and aid programs to developing countries. Enemy defeated via proxy. Proxy gains favor, more aid, more money, footprint. So you advocate the selling of America? I disagree on two points. One is that most countries and the people in them no longer think American culture is all that attractive. in some ways, it is an ugly self absorbed society that thrives in the moment. No real culture exists outside of the product or trend of the month. The other point leads me to the topic of the dissolution of more traditional American ways of life through the selling out of our own country. The southwest is being overrun by immigration, and has been for a long time. Is this how we keep people from hating us? We sell out our future? No one wants to monitor the world, especially me, but I am somehow bound to it. Maybe it was my calling. I would prefer isolationism. American principals? Are these the same prinicipals that gave us manifest destiny, and the extinction of major tribes from the Appalachians to the coast? You see where I am going I am sure. The insurgents have secured no valuable strategy in their fight in Iraq. The truth be told they are terrible fighters, and I would rather run the gauntlet of a thousand IED laden roads than sit under a Soviet style artillery barrage. We have tied the hands of our troops behind their balls, because we "feel bad that we went to war". We think it's "really sucky that some untrained National Guardsmen took some naked photographs, so maybe Nick Berg deserved what he got". C'mon man, grab your testicles and let's whip these little bitches who think they have a chance. You underestimate the power of strength. In some ways you sound a lot like Chamberlin. Your theories are sound, but they fail to acknowledge the examples where strong iron fisted rule prevailed when used effectively. The Phillipines a case in point, American Indian wars, WW2, ancient times. No war is popular in many ways, but if the means justify the ends. Like I said before sometimes it is trial of the will. But the will of the people is not there, then it's just not there. I'll retire the country, and live in peace. Just don't call on me or my son to come when the next fire starts.

We can of course agree that any successful human endeavor: foreign policy, war, science, exploration, is a combination of theory, planning, experience (experimentation), and 'other' (luck, weather, etc.). My point is that the success of a foriegn policity initiative that includes warfare is most often based on decisions and events that happen outside the battlefield, like whether or not to go to war at all and, if so, how. Of course, what happens on the battlefield is important, and overwhelming force cannot but help to determine that outcome, but even decisive military victory doesn't always produce, in the end, a success. Unfortunately for the soldier, it is the decisions made at the top, far, far from the battlefield, that have the most dramatic impact on the outcome of warfare. That, to me, is the true 'fog of war'. I just read Atkinson's 'A Soldier at Dawn' (history of the North African campaign). Excellent. The U.S. was defeated soundly, over and over again during the first months of that conflict. What is striking is that the politics of working with the English and French played just as important a role in those defeats (and later victories) as the lack of experience of our green troops at the time. In addition, the U.S. alliance with Stalin was critical, because it bled Germany's supplies away from Rommel's forces. So to, was the domestic political decision to mobilize industry for total war...not an easy thing to sell to a previously isolationist country. In other words, it took a combination of difficult political alliances and decisions, in addition to materiel and an increased battle hardening of our forces, to defeat a tough enemy in the field. This is kind of obvious, I know, but I just wanted to stress that what happens in those one hour White House meetings determines the outcomes of foreign policy initiatives involving warfare more than any other single factor, including the efficacy of our forces. If that fundamentals of the political plan isn't good from the beginning, no amount of on the ground talent is going to make it a success later on. You also can't discount the unquantifiable. The more credible the threat, the more likely people are to react in a unified manner. The Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor by itself was bad enough, but when they started marching ground troops into the pacific Island chains, and later into the Aleutians, it galvanized the Americans into a fighting stance. 9/11 was a significant military victory for the enemy, but it failed because it had no real follow on attack. If such an attack had taken place, a harbor, or another city, the American response would be different than the one today I believe. The enemy punched, and now they are playing defense, they will counterpunch again when the time is ripe, and the opportunity presents itself. However, right now no one really feels like the threat is real, it is far away, and at bay, and the real threat is our own administration upsetting the delicate balance. To embrace Iran and a unified Iraq, which at this point is not likely-the civil conflict will have to play itself out first, we would have to alienate Israel. Which as you can see is simply not going to happen. Like it or not, that country holds sway in our political circles. I think most people understand that the average Iranian is like the average American. They're not bloodthirsty, they're different, and they would like to live in a more open society. Are they ever going to be a democracy? Well, I have spent the last 2 years living in Persia, and my guess is no. They are like little mafias.

Segal, maybe you forgot Gene Labell kicked your ass publicly after your ran your mouth about how tight your martial arts were. We're talking about fighting insurgents-Jihadists-assorted troublemakers-organized special operations and intel forces. We're not talking about fighting a civilian population, so don't get your net indignation all wrapped up tight in a 9 page thread you just decided to drop in on. We're certainly not talking about imperialism. MAN-Don't make me waste my time with you.

I tend to agree with a lot of what you have said here, but it is my personal belief that the oil industry has little interest in developing alternate fuels for consumer consumption when good old oil is still freely available and making them money. You can't underestimate the greed and power of that industry. You certainly can't ignore the powerful lobby it maintains in the halls of power. How does pulling out of Iraq solve our problems? Do you think pulling out is just going to fix the woes of the world? Or is there a slight amount of truth in the "Let's do this fight over here, in this shithole, instead of in downtown Portland." I say kill these people now, here, and let them remember the powerful hand we have brought to bear on them with fear. I say maintain bases on their soil, and remind them on occassion that we are not be f*cked with. I also agree with a new era of American isolationism. We should be developing Latin American, and South America as powerful trading partners instead of waging proxy wars on behalf of the effete' Saudi Arabian house of Saud. I do believe we need to set a tone on the Middle East before we pull out. One that effectively says; "You may have defeated some dimwitted politicians, but if you come after us we will kill every man, woman, in this region, starting with a fullscale nuclear assault on key targets in the region." American soil should be inviolate, and if something like 9/11 happens again, we need to do the right thing.