JosephH

No, if you folks delete your posts here I'll do the same and we'll just stick with the original thread...

Ok, We can talk about the tree here I guess. I'm definitely not trying to eliminate risk out at Beacon, to the contrary and to be somewhat blunt, my concern is primarily for the well-being of the tree - not climbers. If you are stupid enough to rap off that tree and it cuts, well, bummer all the way around. My priority is the tree. Every rap straight of the tree counts and collectively they will kill the tree. Again, people are rapping regardless of whether the rings are there or not. I'm all for a sign and we are in the midst of having one made up, but my [somewhat pessimistic] opinion is it will not stop folks from doing the rap. So the rings were installed after discussion with BRSP relative to helping protect the tree. Again, this is to protect the tree, not climbers. The rings are installed, but I'm open to talking with BRSP and backing off to just a sign and a warning tag (on the tree) and seeing what happens. But if people are seen doing the rap after that then the solution is likely going to either be webbing or anchors. I for one definitely do not want to see anchors on the ledge, but again, doing nothing is leading to the loss of this tree due to direct human impact. I appreciate all your comments and understand quite clearly their are many opinions on the issue and some of them strong opinions. I'm glad for it, but together we are only part of the decision making process, BRSP is also involved and has a lot of say in this and other decision about climbing at Beacon. Bill Coe and Jim O. can attest that the relationships with these various agencies is on the mend and that we are lucky that BRSP staff is enthusiastic about there being climbing at Beacon. We could just as easily have had staff that wasn't, but also be aware that we are better off showing we can tread lightly in our verical travels. Our impact on the habitat and level of cooperation is watched both short and long term by numerous groups and agencies. The loss of the tree due to our traffic will not enhance our standing with anyone and our impact on it is patently clear to all. The "pissing match" or "sling war" I'm referring to is doing a SE Corner tree sling version of a "bolt war" where we spiral down a loop of putting slings on and removing them. If the BRSP staff picks up on that it will also not help at all. The slings are installed and need to stay installed unless we work it out here to remove them and coordinate that removal with the BRSP Staff. So to say it again, we're looking for solutions that prioritize protecting the tree, not climbers or our sensibilities. What can we do to prevent further damage to the tree? Do nothing and the tree will die from our impact; signage, may prevent some rappels but not likely all; slings and you may encourage more raps, but will prevent more grooving; anchors, offend everyone, but again protect the tree. That depends on whether you believe the impact is greater from the stress of the rap or from the grooving in the bark and traffic over the roots. My opinion is both have significant impact, but cutting down through the outer bark is and further trampling of the roots does more direct damage. There is also significant wear and tear from just using the tree as an anchor which is also something the slings/rings cover as well. I think here we just disagree, and I don't think a sign on the trail will stop folks from rapping the tree. I'm not opposed to giving that a try in conjunction with a warning tag on the tree. But again, if people continue to rap, stronger measures will need to be taken. Part of the pre-openning work was related to loose rock and that will be the primary focus for next year's pre-openning work session. But let's make a distinction between loose rock and some fairly fine gravel sans rocks. No one is talking about hauling rocks up there, small gravel with fines is what is planned. Will some inevitably come down, yes, but it won't be doing anyone any damange and again, I'm more concerned with the health in the tree in this instance than I am with a tiny bit of gravel or dirt coming down occasionally. This is a case of deciding this tree is a landmark feature of the route and Beacon as a whole, recognizing our impact, and putting some effort into reducing it. Signs, slings, and anchors all suck along with having to deal with the issue at all, but for the tree to survive some level of insult to our collective sensibilities is likely going to have to be endured. Unfortunately it is "broke" relative to our impact on the tree and doing nothing, while convenient for us, doesn't do much for it. Joseph Healy Beacon Rock Climbers Association

Beacon Rock Update 10/11/05...

Bill, Ivan, NOLse...? Rockraptor5, I'll be out of town at the first ever Soutern Illinois climbing reunion over that week or I'd take you out. How about a little NW hospitality here... Joseph

=================== Beacon Rock Update - 10/11/05... =================== Anchor Replacement Project "Iron Maiden": Work on "Iron Maiden" is complete. "Flight Time": Work on "Flight Time" is complete. "Flying Swallow": Work on "Flying Swallow" is complete. The top anchor has now been outfitted with webbing and rings but some comments and precautions are in order relative to this route and rappelling it. First off, topping out to the tourist trail or going down "Flying Dutchman" are the best ways off the upper Grassy Ledges after doing any of the routes Between "Flight Time" and "Flying Dutchman". That said, the "Flying Swallow" top anchor is an excellent example of where equalizing webbing anchors are the deal; this anchor allows you to rap "Flight Time", "Flying Swallow", and "Iron Maiden" depending on what direction you leave the ledge - left, center, or right, respectively. But be forewarned: - You need two ropes. - Rapping center or right ("Flying Swallow"/"Iron Maiden") the rope goes over about 8' of rock and you will both need to pull very hard or bring a jumar and aider to pull the rope - one person can't pull it just with hands (and it more or less welds to the rock in the rain). - Rapping left ("Flying Swallow"/"Flight Time") one person can pull the rope by hand, but you may still want a jumar to make it easier. That said, the rap down "Flying Swallow" is quite a journey in it's own right with those caveats. This is THE rappel to do of the three if you are going to do the rap. Also, below and left on "Flying Swallow" about thirty feet from this anchor is probably the best bivy column top at Beacon; a truly spectacular spot. This ledge has no rappable anchor at the moment, however, so if you were going to do it you'd still need two 60's, rap off the left side of the top anchor ledge, and leave the ropes hanging during the night (and don't let those ropes go flying out of reach at any time). P.S. Here is a shot of one of the FA anchors from "Flying Swallow" put up in '65 by Kim Schmitz, Earl Levin, and Dean Caldwell. The new anchor is immediately below this one and we left this classic for show and tell... [Note of thanks to Jim and Larry for helping out on Sunday...] "Flying Dutchman": Currently has a 9mm haul line fixed on it for the Anchor Replacement Project; if you rap or climb this route please make sure when you're done that the end of the haul line is accessible from the ledge of the lower of the two trees where you walk off the rap, thanks. The area at the top of the climb has been cleaned up a bit and the blue safety line from the big pine tree is cloved to the "Flying Dutchman's" old anchors; please clip this safety line if you are going down to check out or do the rap and please leave the safety line biner and clove hitch as you found them, thanks once again. "Upper Grassy Ledges": There is currently a safety line across the top of the Upper Grassy ledges to allow us to safely traverse them with the haul bag during the Anchor Replacement Project; if you use it to go check out the upper ledges - great - but on returning, use it to come back down by the very small pine tree right where the trail ends at "Flying Dutchman", which would put it on the left, or West side, of a rounded rock outcropping. Do not use it to come down on the right, or East side, of this rock towards the line up to the "Land of the Little People" ledge as it is needed out by the edge for humping the haul bag up after the hauling. "Next Up": We've replaced thirty four anchors to-date and there are still eleven anchors West of "Flying Dutchman" to do before returning attention to the stretch to the East on over the Lower Grassy Ledges to "Little Wing". This will take one or two more good days and then probably four or five work sessions for the fifteen anchors in that latter stretch to finish up the project. Some of these will be hauling jobs, some will be hiking up and rapping down from the tourist trail; as always, any volunteers are greatly appreciated. Safety Issues Grassy Ledges Safety Rockfall [repeating]: The recent rains have been bringing rocks down and the area at the start of the "SE Corner" has obviously taken multiple hits. We don't know where these rocks came from but we suspect the blackberry retaining chute that crosses the Grassy Ledges. Add this to last weekend's rockfall of football size rocks on both days onto the area just as you come up to Tunnel #1 and you get conditions that pretty well dictate wearing a helmet. As always - be extra careful of each and every footfall and rope movement when anywhere up on Grassy Ledges. For that matter just clip rock, bushes, anchors, or anything else if you're traversing the ledges roped - try not to let your rope drag at all... General Issues Central Columns Route Adoption [repeating]: We're working hard with the Anchor Replacement Project to set the stage for ressucitating all the routes across the columns in the middle of the South face. But there is a problem. After years of folks mainly climbing around the SW and SE corners, the columns have become badly overgrown. However, once the anchors are all set we should be able to safely clean out and restore the South face column routes. This will probably be the post opening thrust next year. All of you interested in climbing these classics, or freeing some of the remaining aid pitches, might consider working together on restoring these routes. If everyone adopted two or three lines, cleaned them up, and revisited them each year we could probably get this all done in a month and then just be able to relax and enjoy climbing these routes the rest of the year. Keep it in mind anyway and we'll probably put together a meeting over the winter. "SE Corner" Tree Discussion: See post earlier in this thread and any continuing discussion in another "Oregon Cascades" thread titled: Beacon - SE Corner Tree Discussion , thanks. Joseph Healy Beacon Rock Climber's Association

Folks, could we move it here and keep the other thread for updates, thanks...

My preference would be to do nothing as well, but having already seen one crag completely deforested of large, ancient Cedar trees over the years I can say that the tree is definitely at no small risk and in fact is in pretty tough shape around the roots from all the traffic. To some extent you have to ask yourself if you care whether the tree is even up on the ledge or not; because it isn't necessarily a permanent feature at all or one that can tolerate human impact indefinitely without ill-effect and eventual loss. You do have to actually look at it closely to see the ongoing damage beyond the rope groove in the trunk. Some of us would like to see the tree around for a good while yet and if that means taking some actions then we're willing to take them in consultation with BRSP Staff and the WA state biologist/habitat steward assigned to BRSP. As far as "'native gravelly mix' showered down" on folks - welcome to Beacon, stuff falls there and has been coming down off that ledge forever, that's why it doesn't have hardly any left - people and rains have brought it down all along. Our replacing it between the roots won't be causing anything that hasn't been happening since the route was first climbed. Again, the issue is our impact and what can be done to correct for it and minimize it. One is to replenish the lost 'soil' and the other is to educate and/or provide alternatives to using the tree as an anchor. The slings are a compromise after much discussion and as a reasonable measure between doing nothing and installing multiple sets of anchors up on the ledge. They represent a reasonable compromise that does protect the tree and is, for the moment the decision that's been taken in association with the BRSP; please respect it and leave them in place. We will have a meeting or two before humping gravel up to the ledge and we'll post date/time here and you can all come discuss it. We are attempting to find middle ground between doing nothing and the draconian slamming in of anchors. Again, doing nothing is not really an option as [clueless] folks have proven they will keep rapping straight off the tree. Joseph Healy Beacon Rock Climber's Association

Do not remove the slings on the tree - we don't need a pissing war over the slings. As I've said over and over, this is the most heinous, suck-ass rappel on earth, but last year I saw a dozen people do it straight off the tree anyway; and those were just the ones I saw when I happen to be out and in view of the tree. You know, I know, and everyone should know not to do this rappel, but people do it regardless, and they do it at the expense of the tree every time. Ditto for using it as an anchor, dragging rope and webbing around it in the process. No one should use the tree for any purpose, but they do. The webbing and rings are there to protect it and a brass sign will be making an appearance soon. The [unpleasant] alternative to the slings is anchors up on the ledge and we'd very much like to avoid that. Doing nothing is not an option. Traffic over the roots is another totally human impact that needs to be ameliorated and we will be hauling gravel up to it for that reason. If you'd like to get together and talk about the tree, either with the BRCA, the BRSP, or both, please get ahold of me or John Ernster of the park staff. Right now these are the joint plans of the BRCA and the BRSP Staff. Joseph Healy Beacon Rock Climber's Association

Ah, just stumbled over this one. Below are links to posts I've done on gear mods (including ball nuts) and one specifically on ball nuts. The best ball nuts to get aren't made any more; they are the Lowe/Byrne units and the come up on ebay fairly often. There are about 10 issues I have with the current ones and have gone over them with Seth at Trango should they ever escape the demands the Max Cams long enough to do a new rev of them. Here are some links to some discussions of them: Gear Mods: http://rockclimbing.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=79606 Ball Nuts: http://rockclimbing.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=79606 & http://www.rockclimbing.com/forums/viewt...ew=&start=0

Shoot me a pm or email: Beacon.Rock@AvaSys.com

Beacon Rock Update 10/6/05...

=================== Beacon Rock Update - 10/6/05... =================== Anchor Replacement Project "Flying Swallow": The top anchor on "Flying Swallow" has been replaced, but it does not have webbing and rings on it yet but definitely needs them - this is not a rap for rapping off the hangers due to the friction when trying to pull the rope. From this rap you can get to various anchors with two ropes. The mid-point anchor for "Iron Maiden" is directly below on this rap and, in fact, you have to swing a bit to the left to get back to the mid-point anchor for "Flying Swallow". Work was rudelying interrupted by rain and work on the anchors in this area will be completed this Sunday. "Iron Maiden": As mentioned, the mid-point anchor on "Iron Maiden" has been replaced and it will remain just hangers without webbing and rings which aren't needed on this anchor. The old bolts and hangers have not yet been removed but will be in the next few days. "Double Dirty Overhang": The top anchor for "Double Dirty Overhang has been located and this aid climb has some issues. The route from the anchors up to Grassy Ledges proper or to the "Flying Dutchman" rap is severely overgrown making entry and exit from the anchors difficult. Further, the upper part of the route itself is now completely overgrown with bushes and trees. It will take a substantial cleaning effort to recover this climb; likely work for next year. [Note of thanks to Mark (HillsHugger) for helping hump gear up to the Grassy Ledges and to Shane and Lee for helping hump it back out in the rain.] Safety Issues Grassy Ledges Safety Rockfall: The recent rains have been bringing rocks down and the area at the start of the "SE Corner" has obviously taken multiple hits. We don't know where these rocks came from but we suspect the blackberry retaining chute that crosses the Grassy Ledges. Add this to last weekend's rockfall of football size rocks on both days onto the area just as you come up to Tunnel #1 and you get conditions that pretty well dictate wearing a helmet. As always - be extra careful of each and every footfall and rope movement when anywhere up on Grassy Ledges. For that matter just clip rock, bushes, anchors, or anything else if you're traversing the ledges roped - try not to let your rope drag at all... General Issues Central Columns Route Adoption: We're working hard with the Anchor Replacement Project to set the stage for ressucitating all the routes across the columns in the middle of the South face. But there is a problem. After years of folks mainly climbing around the SW and SE corners, the columns have become badly overgrown. However, once the anchors are all set we should be able to safely clean out and restore the South face column routes. This will probably be the post opening thrust next year. All of you interested in climbing these classics, or freeing some of the remaining aid pitches, might consider working together on restoring these routes. If everyone adopted two or three lines, cleaned them up, and revisited them each year we could probably get this all done in a month and then just be able to relax and enjoy climbing these routes the rest of the year. Keep it in mind anyway and we'll probably put together a meeting over the winter. Joseph Healy Beacon Rock Climber's Association

Mark, See you at 10am - thanks for stepping up to help out... Joseph

Leave to out around 9-9:30. Don't worry about that route, that's the work. We can go up the SE Corner or the first two pitches of Young Warriors, or both.

Hi - by work I mean I'm going out to replace some anchors. In tomorrow's case they'll be the ones around the route called "Flying Swallow". This entails: - humping a haul bag of gear to the base; - climbing some route to the top; - dropping a haul line; - then either talking someone into tying it on or rapping down, tying it on, and climbing another route to get back up to haul the bag; - hauling the bag; - humping the bag over to Flying Swallow; - dropping two lines on the route and rapping, fixing anchors on the way down; So, it's a mix of climbing and working. We can pretty much climb anything you want to get up to the Grassy Ledges... Joseph

Going out for a work session on the central columns, will be doing a couple of pitches up to the ledges and could use some help if anyone is available... Joseph

Beacon Rock Update 9/30/05...

=================== Beacon Rock Update - 9/30/05... =================== Anchor Replacement Project Next Up...: Next up now that "Ground Zero" taken care is the "American Death Triangle" on "Iron Maiden" which we'll be able to reach with a double rope rap from "Ground Zero". After that our attention will jog briefly to the "Pipeline" anchor before returning to come up with a [safe] work strategy for the anchors between "Little Wing" and "Blownout". Again, there are safety issues working on some of the lower Grassy Ledges given a decades' accumulation of rock. After that we will be taking a hard look at the overall steep ramp that runs across the base of the South face columns. This ramp/face has become overgrown and is littered with old pins and a few new ones. We will be doing a survey of this face/ramp and developing work plans for it, but those will likely be a project for next year. "Ground Zero" and Rapping: Anchor replaements on Ground Zero is now essentially complete with the exception of one old bolt/hanger that still needs to be removed. But, unlike "Flying Dutchman" which you can get down with anything from a single 50m, "Ground Zero" is a different beast. You can do it with a single 70m in two raps, but only by tying a knot in the end and relying on rope stretch to get you to the mid-point anchor. To be really safe you have to do three raps with a single 70m. Other than that you'll need two ropes. Once again, "Flying Dutchman" is definitely the way to go... "Takes Fists" Top Anchor: The top anchor on "Takes Fists" has been moved out onto the face to a much safer location. Jim Opdyke has asked that the old anchor back on the column top not be removed for history's sake and so it stayed. This anchor was originally placed in a location that was great for sitting while drilling, but definitely wasn't in a good place at all relative to rapping (pulling) or belaying. Again, for all these routes it makes a lot more sense to come back down and do the "Flying Dutchman" rap. As a reminder of that this is a bare anchor with no webbing or rings. [Note of thanks to Ivan for helping out with work on the above two routes...] Unknown Route Info Needed: There is a route between "Ground Zero" and "Takes Fists" that goes up to the broken off column roof just right and a little below the one on "Ground Zero" to two existing Metolius Rap anchors - one grey, one beige. Jim Opdycke said this route was put up by someone younger a couple of years ago; if you have any info on this route or the person that put it up please PM me or email Beacon.Rock@AvaSys.com. Safety Issues Grassy Ledges Safety Rockfall: Well it turns out we had significant rockfall onto the trailhead/tunnel #1 area on both Saturday and Sunday. We still aren't entirely sure where from but are pretty damn sure it is from the main Grassy Ledges trail. The lower Grassy Ledges in that area have been inspected and given the infrequency of travel over them it is probably not the source whereas the main trail is littered. If we can't pin this down and if anymore incidents happen we will be proposing a brief (several day closure to clean the entire Grassy Ledges and the chutes that cross it. Please re-read the previous status update on this issue if this is the first time you are reading about it. General Issues Bird Bands: The Peregrines have to eat and we've found two bird bands on bones up on various column tops recently. One of these was from a Vancouver-based racing pigeon and the other has been sent to David Anderson, the WDFW Biologist chartered with managing the Peregrines, we'll keep you posted as to what it was when we find out. Please keep your eyes open for these and turn them in to the BSRP Staff or contact myself, Jim Opdycke, or Bill Coe and we'll get them passed along. As a side note we've seen the Peregrines on almost every trip out to Beacon this year - keep your eyes and ears open as the are a pretty amazing sight, particularly in a steep dive... Bears: One of Mama's two year olds was idling along the tracks between Beacon and the boat launch yesterday. Looked healthy and happy as it clamored back down into the nature reserve along the river. Joseph Healy Beacon Rock Climber's Association

Actually, wouldn't those technically be a whole bunch of short "run-on paragraphs" that use commas instead of periods? Obviously so sort of high tech compression technology from South of the Mason-Dixon line at work here...

I'll be out there by then doing anchors on the columns so give a shout...

Throw out some comparison climbs. Odd thing about ratings is Boulder Canyon always seemed harder to me than Eldo. How do you think Athlete's Feet compares? Seem harde rin my memory than FFS. Anyway ratings are always pretty darn subjective. On that we can definitely agree, I've always considered Boulder Canyon routes stiff by comparison to Eldo and I suspect it's back to the issue of how sustained a climb is and routes like AF are sustained if nothing else. I think the fact that we don't effectively convey how sustained a climb is (i.e. how many moves at that rating versus simply the level of the hardest single move) and that is often responsible for the disparities in how we percieve ratings as "hard" or "soft". Some areas and routes are hard and sustained, others have hard sections but are not sustained by and large. Young Warriors at Beacon has a couple of hard pulls on it but is pretty casual overall versus getting on one of the columns on the South face or Free For Some which are fairly sustatained by comparison. Take Devil's tower, get on one of those babies and if they say it's a 10c they probably mean a lot of 10c - not one move. There is also the issue of how familiar you are with the rock and style of climbing on it. I don't know about trying to come up with a route-by-route comparison as I guess I do it more on an area by area basis and even then it is just a "feeling" as to whether I'm being consistently sandbagged which means I'm either not "getting" how it's done there or someone is a sandbagger, or I find I'm cruising things which would definitly mean the ratings are soft.

At this point I've rope soloed it to the point where the first two pitches of the "SE Corner", which I rarely climb, are way, way more intimidating than the first two pitches of YW, particularly the top of the first pitch of the SE Corner. But - I still clearly remember my first time on it and I led all of the pitches that day. I was more challenged by the "butterfly" dihedral on the 3rd pitch and particularly by the [optional] slab move on the 4th. I was not with an experienced climber, had tons of rope drag, fast fading light, and Jim O. and the boys were giggling at me from the "Land of the Little People" once they found out it was my first time on the route. Every single person I've ever climbed it with or seen climb it jams the 2nd pitch A-frame crack which I simply can't fathom and I believe that is why most folks consider it a potential "crux" spot whereas I find the move 20 feet below it way more challenging by comparison. It is a definitely a favorite climb now, though, and quite unique in that there is a "secret" for absolutely every hard move on it and if you find them all it is just a hoot. And while it has a couple of bits more difficult, in my mind I find it very comparable in satisfaction and pleasure to my early experiences on the Bastille Crack in Eldorado (which was my first roped solo back in '75). YW is definitely a classic. Again, I suck so bad at jamming I wouldn't be the one to ask. I find it to be about that as a layback with a rough start getting into it, however.

Ah, sorry about that. I would have to disagree about Pipeline and Free For Some though; they would both be 11a's by Eldo or Gunks standards.

Peter, do you normally climb at Index? Rumors over the years all the way back to the 70's have it that it has always been inhabited by sandbagging somsofbiches and that the ratings there were pretty damn stiff compared to say an Eldo or the Gunks. Not having been there I can't say if that's true or not (or if you are one of those somsofbiches), but if so that could be why Beacon seems a bit soft to you.

Matt Kaylor replaced the anchor on "Blownout" two years ago. The lower Steppenwolf anchor was just replaced by Arndt (sp) who is due thanks for the work on it. Yes, again we are considering more of a fast-draining aggregate than a soil and hope to provide some mechanical protection from foot traffic in the process - for everyone reading this, please try to avoid stepping on the tree's roots if at all possible, thanks. This has been the "root" of most of our discussions on the topic. The bottom line though, is that more than a dozen parties were observed rapping straight off the tree last season. We have no idea what would possess anyone to do this rap and, as we've stated repeatedly, it is one of the lousiest raps imaginable; but people continue to do it regardless of the presence of the rap rings. So the question at hand is how to protect the tree. The options are either a) do nothing and watch the bark continue to be further grooved, b) install anchors in rock up there, c) install the webbing and rings. After much discussion option "c" was chosen because doing nothing wasn't an option and there is a lot of opposition to installing anchors on the ledge. The compromise of webbing / rings is just that, but we will be installing a tag on the rings asking folks not to do the rap. The issue is far from settled and brass signage directly on the tree is also now being talked about. Yep, sucks beyond all imagination and the incredible lack thereof. No problem, and we very much appreciate your comments...