JosephH

It does tend to have that effect...

Stradbally, SW of Dublin about halfway to Limerick

I am Irish as well, and an Irish citizen with an Ireland / EU passport to boot. Hard to think of a better reason for atheism than being Irish.

Let's attempt to agree that a clear understanding of the short and long term clinical manifestations and moderate intake are the hallmarks of informed use of any substance. As far as 'permanent damage' from LSD use goes, it is considered a non-toxic substance with temporary psychological effects and a remote possibility for chronic psychosis and a medically recognized, though somewhat controversial, condition known as 'Hallucinogen Persisting Perception Disorder (HPPD)'. By and large it isn't going to affect the average healthy individual in any significant [negative] or lasting way. So in general, evidence for 'permanent damage' is quite limited, though it does indeed happen to a few folks and there is no clear indication why. All that said, it has more potential for good than most substances drifting about out there for human consumption. The principal problem with it is it's most often used in chaotic party settings with no attempt to actively utilize much of what it offers in a more structured and directed way. Plain and simple, you're just not likely to get the most out of the experience dropping after four beers on the way to a party where toking up, drinking more, and getting laid are the main objectives. Not that that is necessarily bad, but you're just kind of selling the stuff way short on what it's capable of delivering. The principal lesson I learned from using it to climb was that 99.9% of the time we don't fall off climbs at our physical limit - we jump off them at our emotional limit and kid ourselves that we fell. Once I realized I was doing this I worked to be more aware of it, not beat myself, and simply do it less. My climbing really took off as a result of that. But even after becoming aware of that little gem, I bet over a 33 year climbing career I've only climbed close to my physical limit less than a dozen times, and most of those under duress, with maybe three or four times max under my control.

We operated in the North in the Hue/Quang Tri area up by the DMZ...

Aug. '73 - I was 21 and on my second tour to Vietnam then...

Hey, you're an intelligent human - google 'animals math'

So we made them up?? If we came from animals they don't have these. How did we get them? We makes up lots of things like art and mathematics and machinery and we didn't get any of those from the animals either. It's called creativity and intelligence. You might have heard of them. Actually, most animals have an instinctive notion of math including calculus and some animals possess a cognitive awareness of basic math concepts. Some primates even do commerce innately once they grasp the concept of a token which can be exchanged for food (they instantly invented prostitution). It is yet more enduring anthropomorphic myth that we alone possess emotions, creativity, and intelligence - a more accurate way to think of the expression of these attributes would be as a sliding scale with us on the top wrung exhibiting them in abundance.

Define 'excessive'...

Well, that's a set of questions well matched to your average five year old. And all world's rights and wrongs came from where? The tablets? The book? They both seem a bit short on real estate for that listing. Where does your dog get right and wrong from? How do they know what's right and wrong? Are you god? Tough rhetorical questions which in the end need no answer, unless of course, you are five years old. "Dumbass" indeed...

This would seem to be the heart of the matter - a deep seated fear need that we simply end. Oh, it's fine that bacteria, slugs, rats, and elephants end - but "god forbid", I should. It is the principal "leverage" which allows mass manipulation. I personally find this one of the most cruel aspects of religion and one of the sadder, though understandable, parts of the human psyche. All creatures fight to survive, that we morph that base instinct into the pervere carrot of surviving death is well, pitiful to me personally. And 'inspiring' 'wormfood'? Even the verbage is sad. I suppose if you require that sort of external 'inspiration' so be it. I find mine every day knowing I have only so many left and need to make the most of them...

Hey Joseph - by saying the religious beliefs were designed, I'm assuming you are implying it is part of the original doctrine - can you please find some of Jesus' teachings (his words) that promote hate, racism, genocide, and war.? The words a largely irrelavant - they could be 'The sky is purple'. The content doesn't matter, beyond being a regonizable and learnable dogmatic 'token' or article. It's how such tokens are employed in the manipulation and control of cultures and societies that count. Whether it's twenty gods or one; whether it's Zeus, Jesus, Allah, or the potted plant in the corner; the net result is largely the same.

Have been there a couple of times. Sounds like you figured out it's best to make your own moves given you're the only one who can see them and seeing them is half the game. Welcome to your thirties, dude, I'd say you've been earning them...

Well, in this case religion is an excellent case study in evolution starting with say, the Hood River phone book and the plethora of splintered sects presented there. Track them back to their roots in pre-history and one sees religion has played the same role all along. As to Stalin and Mao - they eschewed the cover of theistic authority, but adopted and adapted every single lesson and methodology ever employed by organized religion during their rule. Both their regimes were driven by the exact same fear of being percieved or suspected of not accepting dogma proffered as fact. Dogma and fear are the provence of dictators of all stripe - religious, athiest, and Texan - but the employment of religion is where these manipulative techniques have been perfected since humans were capable of speech.

I don't know, hell, it might be worth a try as opposed to posting clueless drivel on a subject you clearly know nothing about. Having put up some routes in the mid-70's that were uprated to .12c's years later - two of them tripping after they repulsed 20-25 solid [straight] attempts by a few of us at the top of our game - I'm at least making conjecture vaguely informed by personal experience.

Again, you simply just have no idea what you're talking about do you...?

Let's see, well, I'd say you clearly have no personal knowledge or experience with the effects of hallucinogens relative to climbing performance; either that or you are a reformed stoner who dropped sh#t willy-nilly in which case you still have no personal knowledge or experience with said effects relative to climbing performance. As for the "transcending the beliefs of billions over millenia ", yes sir, those billions were subject to religious beliefs designed to drive people apart with hate, racism, genocide, and war that entire millenia. You'd think a little introspection might lead to a somewhat different outcome over that same period, but of course religion was never designed for that purpose. As a matter of fact, I'd say the use of religion for those purposes definitely consitutes intelligent design - ruthless and inhumane - but, definitely quite ingenious.

It should be both mandatory and free for every young female in this country at the steep annual price of 0.000000000002237% of what the Iraq war is costing us.

Stewart, sorry I missed this earlier... I think the Tibetans have to be taken in context. I personally believe they are an interesting example of the many curious ways human cultures evolve in relative geographic isolation. I also think you have to look not just at the Tibet of today or of recent years, but that you have to look at the history. When you do that you find that the Tibetans and Chinese have been interlocked on every front for thousands of years. China now lords over Tibet, but for centuries it was the other way around with the Tibetan army lording over an empire that stretched from Bengal to Mongolia. I think some of the notions and legendary myths of both Bhuddism and Hinduism lend themselves to developing and reinforcing caste systems, carefully divided material wealth, and fairly unforgiving societal structures. In some places this could be said to be a matter of resources and survival except that it is equally true in areas where resources were plentiful. We associate [Tibetan] Bhuddism with peace today, but historically it has wielded vast armies and built great empires by force. The answer to the question you ask is very dependent on when and whom you ask. The answers today would be different than if you asked a Southern Chinese serf about Tibetan Bhuddism in 760CE, a Moore in Spain about Catholicism during the Inquisition, or a member of my Wife's tribe about Christianity anytime since the Lewis and Clark expedition. Though in the case of my Wife's tribe you have to ask the few holed up on this side of the border, as the christians on the Canadian side have officially designated them "Extinct" - go figure...

Yep, each other and all the other current expressions of the pool of planetary DNA our lives completely depend on...

That is a perversion of the term 'science'. I'd buy it's the journey of learning about ourselves, each other, and the world we live in. I would posit that animals live a far more pure and spiritual life than we do - they just don't have to do as much learning to be capable of it and are not easily suseptible to corruption of their base spirit. Lexically I can go with that... life without the absurdity of god - my idea of living a self-defined life where you are responsible for developing and managing your own life, destiny, and journey through this world.

The fact that religion still plays a significant role in human society is about the only legitimate argument I can think of for attempting to refute evolution. Ignorance prevailing is one thing, clinging to it in desperation and fear is entirely another - the toys and weapons change, but not really all that much else...

I believe with a bit of conscious awareness of self and others that the totality of the latter can be avoided, but that a complete state of the former can never be attained in this life (or in death).

I would disagree, religion very much preys upon, distills, and actualizes the base fears we all experience.

Yep, particularly as expressed in hate, ignorance, genocide, and war...