drater

Good idea Marty. Can I be the official spokesperson if you become Prez? Involving the authorities (land use managers) usually leads to way more problems than it solves. I foresee the climbing experience at Dishman to worsen from this. Hope I'm wrong. Blowboarder

I've been thinking that 30-40 pounds of dynomite would turn Dishman into the INW premier bouldering area. Any objections? Other than Dane, of course. I'm still sitting on all these explosives since the Y2K scare, finally figured out how to use them. Anyone who wants to join me in "creating" a bouldering area can pm me. I plan on being there next weekend. Bring your earplugs! Blowboarder

You all need to quit you're sniveling. Fire is good for the eco-system, especially that eco-system where the repurcussions of a 100 year failing forestry management plan are just now being felt. Before you all start talking smack, this is coming from someone who fought fires for 11+ years, studied way too much forestry, and almost got his ass burnt off on Icicle ridge in '94. Just find somewhere else to go craggin & rest assured when you go back next summer it will be much healthier place for the full time inhabitants, maybe even us "tourists" Blowboarder

I'm forced to spend the weekend in St.Maries, ID for a family wedding. Although the schedule looks fairly full with drinking Budweiser & Schmidt animal beer plus shooting at anything unlucky enough to cross our mighty paths, I was hoping to do some climbing or bouldering. Does anyone have any beta on anything to do around there? Probably a shot in the dark, but I figured it was worth a try. Thanks, Blowboarder

YOU MUST RESPECT MY AUTHORITIE!!!

[quote} Wacker P.S. shouldn't be too terribly hard to discover who I am! YOU MUST RESPECT MY ATHORITIE!!

Marty, grab the rack & head on over. Just leave the Bosch & bolts at home. No use wasting good money equipping routes someone will promptly remove. Not that I haven't wanted to bolt some amazing lines there, I just have to respect the ethic the place was developed in by the people that turned me onto climbing and the area. Speaking of Omak and gear routes, you should check out Omak Crack.FA by Dave Jones (Cochise Stronghold hardman that lived in area back in early 90's). Rated it at "hard" 12a but I think that some sandbagging was in effect. It's spanked me every time on it, and I've onsited trad routes in Yosemite just below that grade. After working some 13a cracks in the Valley & Spain, I think that's closer to actual grade than 12a. Bring a #5 Camelot (you'll be glad you lugged the fukker up that far) but please, once again, leave the bolting kit at home. This area isn't on private property but on Tribal Land (who consider the rock more sacred even than the staunchest traditionalist) and a bolting spree back in the mid 90's got the area shut down. Hard work & close friendships have opened it back up, but must be treated with respect to maintain access. I would like to see what someone of your climbing ability thinks of OC, as it has never been onsited and required years of working the route by some solid 5.12 climbers for the redpoints. Which I still can't claim. Couple other quality routes hidden among all the choss as well, watch out for snakes and loose rock. Does trundling count as chipping? If so, I'm guilty as hell as well. Marty, as I awoke in front of my keyboard at 10:15 this morning, (sweaty, naked, smelling like bad sushi) I realized that when I fell asleep (passed out) at 4am that I must have been sleep-posting again. Some people sleepwalk, I sleep-post. No more smoking hash & taking absinthe shots with those sluts from the Stateline for me!!! (I swear) The last thing I remember was being in a Briana Banks chatroom but I must have clicked to cascadeclimbers.com in my daze. So, let me clear a few things up, as most of that post was my subconsious mind fantasizing. 1) There is no rock or rock climbers in the Okanogan. Except maybe up at Skaha, but that rumor is unsubstantiated. 2) If there were any rock there, it would be shit and totally unfit for climbing of any sort. 3) The only crack worth climbing in Omak is up the backside of this 300 pound Indian girl named Josie, and thats only if you don't mind a little copenhagen while you're getting your groove on. Long live the Omak Stampede!!! 4) Wasn't Davie Jones the drummer for the Monkeys? I'm gonna have to talk to my shrink about that one. 5) I've never climbed anything harder than 5.3 (that was on toprope and I came down because I was scared). Although, getting home last night was at least 5.6, maybe 5.7 6) I don't even climb or like climbers. I thought this whole time this was a porn chat-room, couldn't figure out why there weren't any good pictures posted. What a waste of time, you people all suck. Why would you waste your time on the internet argueing about climbing ethics when there is so much free deviant porn out there? 7) There is no rock or rock climbers in the Okanogan. Didn't you get it the first time? 8) There is no "canyon" being secretly guarded by the locals in the OK. Because they don't exist, as I pointed out before. Come on, keep up now. 9) I'm outa here, this thread sucks. Besides, I'm late for happy hour at the Stateline I apologize for the previous misinformation I provided, hopefully this clarifies the matter. (Now maybe my PM box will quit filling up with hate mail from the locals that don't exist regarding my association with such a known "rock raper" as yourself) Also, think I know how to solve this ethics debate. Remember the scene from Gangs of New York where the rival gangs grab all the farm implements and have at eachother. Maybe we could schedule something similar at Dishman. I'll be at the Vu watching between dances. Have fun. Cheers, Blowboarder

Marty, grab the rack & head on over. Just leave the Bosch & bolts at home. No use wasting good money equipping routes someone will promptly remove. Not that I haven't wanted to bolt some amazing lines there, I just have to respect the ethic the place was developed in by the people that turned me onto climbing and the area. Speaking of Omak and gear routes, you should check out Omak Crack.FA by Dave Jones (Cochise Stronghold hardman that lived in area back in early 90's). Rated it at "hard" 12a but I think that some sandbagging was in effect. It's spanked me every time on it, and I've onsited trad routes in Yosemite just below that grade. After working some 13a cracks in the Valley & Spain, I think that's closer to actual grade than 12a. Bring a #5 Camelot (you'll be glad you lugged the fukker up that far) but please, once again, leave the bolting kit at home. This area isn't on private property but on Tribal Land (who consider the rock more sacred even than the staunchest traditionalist) and a bolting spree back in the mid 90's got the area shut down. Hard work & close friendships have opened it back up, but must be treated with respect to maintain access. I would like to see what someone of your climbing ability thinks of OC, as it has never been onsited and required years of working the route by some solid 5.12 climbers for the redpoints. Which I still can't claim. Couple other quality routes hidden among all the choss as well, watch out for snakes and loose rock. Does trundling count as chipping? If so, I'm guilty as hell as well.

Marty, Crampons & Ice Axes is the preferred gear. Climbings only good after heavy rainfall. Then the less-than-vertical dirt walls get soft enough to climb but only for a few hours. YEAH RIGHT!! Grab Maynard and the rest of the "tools" and head on over. I'm sure you'll get a warm welcome. Some of them boys haven't seen a woman in so long anything in Lycra or Prana looks good to them. Take your lube. Sorry so beligerent in post yesterday, my opinion is no more valid than yours even if I think yours is totally fucked up. Which I do. Whatever. Have fun with it. Just don't do it around me. Blowboarder

And that my young friend is the most egotistical statement you have made to date. Sadly ignorant of the facts as well besides being obviously mistaken. You want to manufacture routes do so on something you actual do own and not public domain. Dane, cheers to that. Marty, if you want to desecrate rock and reduce difficulty down to your level, do it somewhere where it will only matter to you & your "inner-circle" of chip-aholic fuckwads. Obviously, the majority of climbers don't feel the same as you about this issue. So chipping holds & creating "routes" somewhere where multiple user groups of climbers climb is unacceptable. If you have to do it, do it at some bum-fuck crag where only you know of. Oh, and one other piece of advice: Better keep your chipping and gluing meglomaniacal self out of the Okanogan. First route you fuck with there is going to have a semi-permanent rap anchor: YOUR BALL SACK!! Wouldn't want to see that happen so keep your "questionable" ethics away!

Go bouldering. Don't chip holds. You either send or you don't. No cutesy little terms for failure ( I almost pink-pantied it with a tight belay). If you get too run out, either send, eat shit and die, or downclimb. Pretty simple. Leaves more time for action. Less talk. Lots of fun. Marty, Dane, 1st ascents are rad. We all love them. Thanks for the pioneering effort. Dane, support your cause, just make sure you send the hangers to Marty so he can go somewhere else and deface the rock since he was so polite to ask, twice. Marty, I watched Chris Sharma warm up on 14a. Someone out there climbs easily at a level where you peak out. You make the decision to deny anyone else a fair chance at it when you alter the rock to make it more climbable. Pretty selfish for someone who has donated so much time and effort for the good of the climbing public with all your more moderate FA's around. Maybe you feel it's your right since you've given so much. It's your choice. Just not the right one. Keep in mind this is coming from someone whose FA's all involve a rack or a bouldering pad & hopefully some spotters. Just my opinion. Not worth any more or any less than anyone else. Maybe some more people will sound in & we can get a consensus.

Marty, some of the rock in Thailand while still limestone, climbed & looked almost exactly like Manresa. Generally speaking, the rock in Thai is hell on bolts. Something to do with all the high-salt content rain hitting the tops of those cliffs (jungle makes nice reservoirs) and then running through the rocks causes an electrical reaction with the steel (stainless, expansion, glue-in, all it seems) which rots bolts. I've hand removed 1/2" Stainless Steel bolts while rappelling (unintentionally) that had been in place for 7 months. Thankfully EWASH is a desert. I'm sure anyone with a penchant for clipping bolts is going to go right past Manresa. Anyone looking for some good, fun bouldering with lots of potential FA's will enjoy it though. The rock seems pretty unique to me for EWASH, although there is probably more of it. Thanks for the input, where do I get more info on Metaline area? Thanks Blowboarder

Youz da man!! Beautiful photo. Is the release in the foreground natural or human caused (skier,snowboarder)? If someones getting that line, I'm doubly sick to my stomach w/ envy. Beats getting skunked by the wind trying to go kiteboarding, should have gone bouldering instead. Rock is always there. Dependable. Consistent. Unlike snow. Ride those lines before they melt. Or do they? Who cares. Killer photo.

Sarg, right on bro! Your cousin is so hot! I slept with her too. And her brother, but that's a different story. Sorry to hear about truck, maybe you could hitchhike. Just remember: ASS, CASH or GRASS, NO ONE RIDES FOR FREE! Yeah, some consolation prize there, save some new problems for someone else, you bogart! As for the modem, I think it's a piece of gear, kinda like a cam-hook but maybe more useful as a bashie. I don't really know either, just heard someone talking about one & wanted to sound cool. Did it work? Hey check out the "Washington Gaper" thread on this forum, I posted one that might describe someone or someones you know. (Hint: It's not your cousin. Did I mention she's hot?)

Marty, glue-ins would probably work. Some of the rock in Thailand is real similar and was protected by glue-ins. After talking to some members of the Tribe whose property it is on, I would suggest not actively developing the cliffs above boulders as the Grotto was considered a sacred place to the Tribe and could result in a closure. They were in full support of bouldering tho, said they had climbed on boulders as children & felt it worked with the "spirit" of the place. They didn't seem aware of existing bolted climbs (3?) & I didn't mention them. Did you climb them? Any idea on difficulty? Thanks for info.

Pindude, I think it might be Elk. You can see them from Hwy 2. Know what you mean about choosy Spokane basalt, generally pretty dubious. If you haven't checked out the Manresa Grotto, you should. If you like bouldering, you will like this place. As long as you don't mind Hobo spiders. They sure like those pockets. Raid is killer shit, extra powerful when combined with a lighter. Seriously though, it's really good and could use some serious development. More time than I have. FA to be had everywhere. Cheers

Sarg, mucho gracias senor. Good to hear a voice from the stronghold. Wondering if anyone from the OK knew how to work a modem. Considering all the cousin-marrying going on up there and all. Wasn't seriously worried about getting my ass kicked up there (since you haven't been able to do it since I was 12), just wanted you guys to know I wasn't gonna tell all the secrets. Definetely not interested in giving anyone a roadmap, just hoping to incite some interest in bouldering in general. I asked the question, so I had to give my opinion. Doesn't seem like a real strong bouldering presense here, got some good info though. The allure of those fat, shiny bolts is too strong. As for your waiting in line reference, what would it matter since you fukkers are the ultimate snake-artists, cutting to the front of the queue with true style. Still, would love to get together and do some climbing, you should come over here & we could do something on Chimney Rock & I could show you the "grotto". I think you might like it.

Larabee, that's the place I was refering to. Pretty much remember it like you just described it, fun though for a visit. Middle Earth? Heard of it, don't know anything else. Anybody know of any bouldering guides (online or print) for the state, I think there is enough developed bouldering out there to merit one. Been toying with the idea of writing Eastern Washington bouldering guide for quite some time, although I would have to omit all of Okanogan County to avoid getting lynched by angry locals. Which is a shame, because that's the best bouldering in the state IMO. But whatever, that's another issue. So omitting the privately owned bouldering paradise in the 'Nogan (and about 20 other killer spots not owned by climbers that any mention of would result in my ass getting kicked) here is my list of bouldering spots in some general order. 1) Sweetwater/Icicle-Leavenworth-Granite 2) Manresa Grotto- Pend Oreille River (only because Sweetwater is more developed)-Conglomerate 3) Dishman Hills-Spokane-Granite 4) Minnehaha-Spokane-Granite 5) Entiat Boulders-Entiat River Valley-Granite (in serious need of development, awesome rock, V-Sick potential) 6)Horsethief Reservoir-Columbia Gorge-Basalt (all best problems closed) 7) Alta Lake Boulders-Pateros-Granite w/funky limestone veneer (Yeah, I know this in OK county but since all the holds were covered in lichen when I found them & chalk when I left them, who cares) 8) Curlew Boulders-Kettle River-Granite 9) Pateros Boulders-Columbia River-Water polished granite (awesome smooth slabs & faces) 10)Boulder Pass-Ferry County-Granite (almost no development, in need) Also, good bouldering at Banks Lake& Tum-Tum Reservoir. Not sure where to put them as it's been years since I've bouldered at either and development at time was nil. Should also say that if I could include all spots in E. Wash. then Sweetwater would be no higher than 5th or 6th. If anyone is going to Barter Faire in October and wants to see some spots firsthand, PM me. Would love show you (after you sign non-disclosure agreement). Distel32, if we want to include Squamish because of proximity and quality then we also have to include Oliver Boulders south of Skaha. It's on private property but landowner is cool as long as you make contact first. Unbeleivable bouldering on super-solid Gneiss, edgy, crimpy, juggy & steep!!! And its in Canada, so while it's still in Okanogan Valley, it's not in OK County. HA HA suckers (that ones for my friends) Who else knows some spots. The bouldering Renaissance is on, it's time WA got it's due credit. All right, lets hear the spray from all the pundits, I know it's coming. Blowboarder

Points well made but you overlook the fact that climbing grades are totally subjective. Why strive to achieve a number that constantly changes. 5.7 in J-tree can be twice as hard as a 5.10 clipup at Vantage. Does that make 5.7's there 5.14? And does that mean that 5.10's there are actually 5.20. If so, I rock, all you sponsors had better show up and start licking my boots. Enjoy climbing for what it is to you but if you're gonna chase numbers, chase the almighty dollar, at least it is fairly consistent.

Distel, lots of problems out there could be way hard when someone who climbs that hard finds them. You live in Bham, what's the bouldering scene up there? I remember a park on the ocean with some killer bouldering in it. Sessioned there a few times when visiting. Any thoughts on areas with the most concentrated problems V5 & up? What about area with most problems total (V0+?). Define area as you park car and go bouldering without driving again. Also, I'm suprised not hear more feedback from Seattle area climbers. I would think the west side of Cascades would have some areas developed that are good. Maybe everyone is keeping it quiet. Thanks

Distel32, thanks for response. Lworth rocks for sure. Sweetwater should be called Sweetboulder. The Forest Service Boulders up the Icicle is pretty rad, needed a lot more development last time I was there (3 years?). Any other areas have a good concentration of problems? Do you know details on any of V-hard boulder problems (loc, FA, rock type)? Blowboarder

Pindude, glad to hear about your efforts with DH Natural Area & surrounding land. It's always been a favorite of mine, hopefully you guys can put an end to the urban sprawl that is invading the area. Never got up to the Rocks of Sharon, tried a couple times, got shut down by irate local landowners w/ attitude (I'm sure they've dealt with a lot of people trying to get up there). I hear it is some of the best rock in Spokane tho, certainly looks impressive from the backside. Thanks for your input on Spokane bouldering, have you checked out those basalt boulders north of Mead, can't remember name of town (gas station/restaurant?) right there. I don't know if they are any good (basalt is so hit and miss) but they are numerous. Also tried a traverse at the base of Deep Creek, underneath all those sport climbs, super long and pumpy, never did it tho. Cheers

Johnny G. sent the sit down start to a 60 degree overhanging arete called Wajigigi in the Okanogan about 4 years ago, said it was V11 or harder. All I know is, it's finishing move is a V5 or V6 dyno off bad holds (and a cheat stone for me). He added about 12 feet of climbing underneath with miserable slopers, gastons, & sidepulls. Nice big jugs to pull your ass of the dirt at the start, though.

I'm not so sure that there are any established problems at Minne overcome with lichen or moss. As far as peeps bouldering at Minne, I see em out there all the time. Hey, Martin, why don't I ever see you bouldering? I originally wondered about Sherman's Minne comment myself, but book was written when bouldering was just getting really popular (I think it helped it along), and I would assume Sherman did not know all of WA bouldering at the time. Since the book has come out, we've got countless new and outrageous problems all over the state, not to mention worldwide. Regardless, Minne's excellent for bouldering, and climbers and boulderers alike have a lot to thank the Vermin for. Edited to add: I don't get around the state much just to boulder; if I'm travelling I'm likely doing some trad, alpine or sport climbing. I'm sure there are more bouldering areas that rival Minne, but the only other bouldering area I know of, and could be considered better than Minne as far as concentration of good problems, is in the Icicle. What are others? Blowboarder, hopefully when you bouldered at Minne, you had a *knowledgable* bouldering local showing you round, and weren't going just by some guidebook. Many problems and rocks never make it into guidebooks--Minne's no exception. Pindude, I lived in Spokane for 3 years, spent loads of time bouldering MInny and riding my MB all over Beacon Hill. Fairly sure I've seen all the rock there is to see on that hillside. Don't get me wrong, I don't think Minny sucks by any means, I just don't think it's the best in the state. I actually think the best bouldering in Spokomptan is at Dishman Hills, in a few areas. Right behind the Water Tower above the main wall (can't remember what it's called) is a gully with a 15-20' steep wall running the length of it for a few hundred feet. The best bouldering usually has a hobo village set up under it but if you show up with a gallon of cheap wine they are pretty accomodating. Or you can boulder there just after the "MAN" comes thru and kicks them out for a few days. Some super sweet problems there in the V6-V7 range with harder ones too. Also, if you ride your MB back in that nature preserve (that you are not supposed to) there is some killer shit. Best wall is way back in back, underneath some mansions in those canyons. Super sweet rock, steep faces & steep finger cracks. Watch out, seen rattlers every time I've bouldered there. Another killer spot N of Spokavegas is the Manresa Grotto in P.O. River Valley, north of Cusick on E side of River. Conglomerate limestone, pocket pulling & knob pinching, super solid rock. Somebody super strong boulders there, I did some sweet problems in the V5-V7 range, but there is a bunch of problems I couldn't do the first move of & they looked harder from there. It's probably about 20% developed to its potential.

Skeezix, where is Hidden Lakes Peak? The alpine bouldering at Cathedral Lake underneath Ampitheatre Mountain is unreal, real similar to Tuolomne Meadows, but more concentrated. Naturally clean w/ almost no lichen. Doesn't get any action so no chalk, it's onsighting every time you go! Amazing what 30 feet of snow all winter will do for some rocks.