JensHolsten

That shot of On The Lamb is beautiful enough to bring tears to my eyes! Damn, I love the meadows. Mikey is right on in his post above; it's all about Fairview Dome.

To clear up a little confusion on the never ending Red M& M's grade debate, take a look at climbingwashington.com. Smoot lists his 11b rating as a misprint and gives the route 12a. Do I think the route is 12a? It definetely feels light, although I would give it 11+ while onsighting. I feel that the full Japanese Gardens pitch is less difficult and Red M&M's is definetely the harder lead. The bottom line is who gives a fuck. I think Red M&M's is a beautiful climb especially when it catches evening light. I find it odd that so many people bash Vantage as an area. Like every crag, there are shitty routes and a handful of really good routes (many of which I have never seen anyone on). Hell, most of my own freinds would rather pull plastic then climb out there. Not me.

Hmmm...I don't know if I believe this claim. Maybe my mind is too closed to realize the possiblity of such a feat, but damn...I just dunno.

Hey Jens, cool name...someone added one bolt at an inconvenient spot on top of Spellbould, adding to the smc's and the one shitty homemade bolt. And about Midnight Rock having better trad climbing than index....that's a bold statement, although who am I to talk. I haven't been to index this fall after falling under Midnight's spell!

Thanks Matt for having the motivation for a project like this. I would say that more than anything else, Midnight Rock needs a cleanup. Many anchors and bolts have been replaced-the problem (I notice this all over crags in Washington) is no one takes out the old bolts after they throw new ones in. WTF. Finish the job! Stevens Pass Motel, Spellbound, and many climbs at Index have four to five bolts at each anchor. Two good ones and the old shitty, trashy ones. Have fun up there Matt, the hang is unbelievable.

Hmmm, is the project you speak of the seam directly to the left of the climber in the photo? If so, that is a cool looking line! My question to those who have seen it is how far from other crack systems is the seam. In the picture there appears to be a wider crack just to the left. Is the project an independent and pure line or a desperate eliminate??

I was just wondering...with all the worry about the bottom of SPM being scary, what the hell is up with the top! Seems miles more heady than the bottom! Does anyone know whether the climb takes the face or the crack at the top?? Sweet route!!

Hey Rudy, I fully agree. I think if you take time to hear the tone of my post, you'll see that a chopping war is the last thing I want. Taking out bolts deemed unecessary by the Index community as a whole is more along the lines of what I was talking about. I wouldn't take any action unless I was there with the folks who played significant roles in the development of the cliff. You're right though, a chopping war would do more good than harm. Jens

Some good discussion. Just a quick question here. Is putting two bolts next to a former pin flake considered ok at Index? I have not climbed at Index that much and am still trying to get a grip on the local ethics. Everytime I bring a first timer to Index one of their first comments regards the plethora of bolts on the cliff. They always leave having enjoyed the routes (and with their asses kicked), but most of the time mention concern with the amount of bolts on the cliff. I have to admit, there are a lot of bolts (which should be kept to a bare minimum in my opinion). Are there bolts which the Index community obviously deems unworthy of being on the cliff? If so, maybe they should be removed. I would be happy to help (not without the consent of others who know the area better) while I am in town. Also, just wanted to say thanks to Inacan for his awesome cleaning energy. I definetely agree with that ethic! Jens

Exactly my questions and sentiments Soulreaper. I think it is important that bolts are not added for mere convenience as they are at the base of Tadpole (you don't even need yellow aliens for the climb, so losing these pieces to the belay is fine). I am also discouraged that people would fail to upgrade nearby anchors. If you chose to upgrade the condition of a route finish the job. Clean up the existing anchors and bolts and pull the trash. The Full Model Worker belay is a great example. Whoever installed the rap bolts and chains (not the same people involved with Tadpole) left the crusty old bolts right next to the newer setup. This strikes me as a very half-assed approach to anchor replacement. Eight bolts total are found in the anchors of Full Model Worker and Tadpole when only four need to be there. On a another note, the reason the Full Model Worker anchor was not upgraded was because the folks involved in cleaning Tadpole accessed the climb via a new variation to Princley Ambitions. One or two bolts were added (I haven't taken a good look) to this 25 foot section of new climbing. I also was discouraged to notice this. In my opinion, variations need to be VERY worthy to accept new bolts. We don't need to climb and bolt every inch of rock on the lower wall. I would definetely like to hear other people's ideas on the issues mentioned. I think the recent bolting developments at Index are worthy of a constructive discussion.

Hey bland- What can I say, times change. I got sick of spending three months on routes that you onsight, so I took up trad climbing. Pretty damn fun I must say. Have a great new year. Any new development on the limestone this past year? Peace, Jens

A couple freinds of mine did quite the proud link-up in Red Rocks this winter...Levitation 29, Cloud Tower, and Epinepherine all in under 24 hours. If you've done these routes you know the crux was all that hiking.

What's up Jens- As your fellow wannabe climber I definetely have no right to downplay the top grit climbers accomplishments. No matter how many crash pads, spotters, top rope rehersals ect...all bad ass grit climbers have an intense and inspiring belief in themselves. That said, the routes that I have done in headpoint style have left me much less satisfied than intense onsight leads I have done. For myself personally, I always try to pursue rock climbing from the ground up. Nothing compares to onsight climbing in IMHO.

E- I haven't done the link up, just trying to clear up a little confusion. I looked at the book again and figured out whats going on. Thanks for the info, beautiful route. Jens

Does Das Muzak go to the set of chain anchors or is that a variation on the real Das Muzak? In the old book it seems that the line swoops left to join Rainshadow(I think) and is longer than it now appears. What's the deal?

I can relate with your dad Gary.I chipped my talus and sprained the shit out of my ankle at the end of july. I started climbing about three weeks ago even though it is swollen and painful still. I know, I am an idiot, but I dunno, gotta get the fix. I always tell myself I will rest it, but when someone asks me to go out, the word Ok slips from my mouth before I know it. I am trying to mellow out, I really am.

Just wondering if anyone has info on free attempts on the Green Dragon or Town Crier. I am sure they have been tried by many badass climbers, but am just wondering if they even go, what pitches have gone, ect...

I went to Rifle for my first time this spring and realized that the limestone areas in NE WA are really quality. I honestly think the limestone is equal or of better quality than the slick, blocky shit in Rifle (there are some standount routes there for sure though).

A friend and I are also interested in a ride to j-tree before the 1st. We would be happy to pay for all the gas (beggars can't be choosers). Shoot me a PM if you can provide any assistance. I have never posted on this site before, but I have a feeling I know some of you. Also, no ride back will be needed. Have a good one! Jens