John_Roper

Here’s another shot of the Buck Horn Arete . Second picture on page.

One good turn deserves another, all year, any time. Nice one, Phil and Sky. Glad to see you cruised and were not crucified by Crusoe Couloir. http://www.turns-all-year.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=tr0506;action=display;num=1118961286

Whoa, John S.—that aerial of Robinson’s Crusoe Couloir does it proud. And Curt, yes I loaned that photo to Peggy for the 75 Scrambles book, and those three sentences in CAG to Fred. We spotted the somewhat hidden route in 1984, and did it with Reed Tindall in ’85. Pretty straightforward, except it was icy enough in June to make Reed a little concerned on dull 10-point crampons he threw in at the last moment.

Robinson Mountain – Crusoe Couloir There is a shot of the north couloir about half way down this page. http://www.rhinoclimbs.com/WashingtonsTop100byP400.31-40.htm

Did Lage (in 1925) precede Lloyd on Blizzard? Could one of Lloyd Anderson’s FAs (with a different name then) be an answer (now) to one of Klenke’s questions?

Fellow climbers and explorers, Flagging is an important issue related to preserving the quality of our dwindling wilderness. Plastic flagging is litter, plain and simple. Even worse, it has led to permanent trails up pristine ridges and slopes, where there were none before. I was lucky enough to have grown up in Newhalem when that town was the end of the road, a generation before there was a North Cascades National Park, before there were flags, and now ground-in paths to once untrammeled places. It used to be an adventure just to get above timberline. Route finding in the woods was an art and a challenge, up and down. When my buddies and I first headed into Eldorado, Pyramid-Colonial , the Chilliwacks/Depot Creek, the Southern Pickets (Terror Basin and The Barrier), Blum, Axes (access) Creek turnoff, Primus-Tricouni, Stout Lake, Azure Lake, etc., there were no flags. There were no trails. We can't get that back, but we don't have to make it any worse than it is, or destroy other approaches. If you come upon a flag that was helpful to you, fine. But grab it, and practice your wilderness route-finding skills on the way down. Leave some unmarked hillsides for my kid and your kids to explore. Tear this trash off the trees. Fill your pockets with these eyesores. Make the wilderness wild again. It does the soul good! It does the wilderness good. Thanks for listening, John Roper

There's a good shot of this couloir in red CAG, p.135, 2nd edition. We looked up at it from the Skagit-Ross Lake road, and looked down on it from the notch on a recon trip up Silver Creek to Silver Lake in 1970. Just a matter of time before one of you guys is skiing it.

Actually, no, not yet. But it's on my list of things to do in the Skagit drainage. Hope it doesn't bother too much to say this, but Don S and I have talked about climbing this peak together. (He rejected Finlayson, to retain his dignity, but since it's a named peak of the Skagit, I'm not above sneaking over there too.) Want to come along?

F,W, W, F, from the east (while standing within the Skagit drainage), just north of border. Just a guess.

Orthanc http://fan.theonering.net/middleearthtours/orthanc.html Caradhras http://fan.theonering.net/middleearthtours/caradhras.html

I have not seen any sources that give the black magic twist to Mesahchie. Is there a Canadian reference for this? This is not a good word, in fact, it is the worst thought in Chinook Jargon. Here's what a couple of authorative dictionaries of the Chinook Jargon say about this word: The Chinook Book by El Comancho (W.S.Phillips) Copyright 1913 WICKED--VILE--SINFUL--DISSOLUTE--VICE--ROTTENNESS--OBSCENE--DEPRAVED--VICIOUS MESAHCHE "Mesahche" is used in Chinook to indicate anything worse than "Cultas" (bad). It conveys the idea of dirty vile-ness, vice, rottenness, etc. It is probably more often used to describe things as being obscene, depraved, etc., than in any other sense, though it covers the whole catalogue of things or conditions that are "worse than the worst," "rotten to the core," and all like ideas where the term "bad" does not reach far enough. It also means dangerous or "danger-from" vile things. The words used before or after it qualify its meaning or it is used to couple the vile meaning with the ordinary meaning of any other word. Examples: "Delate mesahche man," "A very wicked man." (Wickedness understood to mean "the limit of human depravity" from all angles). "Mesahche klootchman," "A harlot." .... (Spellings as are.) The Chinook Jargon by George C. Shaw Copyright 1909 Me-sah-chie, adj., n. © (Chinook,-Masachi.) Bad; wicked; evil; vile; sin; bitter; cruel; depravity; dissolute; dung; filthy; immodest; nasty; obscene; vice; insolence; unworthy; unruly; iniquity; unrighteous; naughty. Example: Elip mesachie,--worse..... "Mesatchee,--bad, vile, vicious in the sense of vileness, filth, dirtiness, etc., whether in the abstract or in the concrete." PS: Never did think those goofy, so-called Minas Ithil (FA really by Mike Swayne and Don Ihlenfeldt on 7/28/62) to Caradhras (Sarhdarac, spelled backwards) names had any relevance to North Cascades toponymy, and wonder why FB bought into these.

Harry Majors wrote Say it ain't so, Harry. This forum, and the Cascades climbing community, will be much better served with your continued interesting insights and research. Your nuggets about the Moxes, the Ptarmigans, Wolf Bauer, the Ragged Ridge names, Fred's peak totals, etc. have been fascinating. I don't see that you've said anything disrespectful, argumentative, degrading, or untrue about FB or CAG in your posts. You've called a spade a spade, as you know it. Ignore the sharp elbows. Truth be told, FB knew about the original names on Ragged Ridge (personal communication, plus Panther and Holyoke were in AAJ, and Ragged End and Gendarmes were in Mountaineer Annual), and he was aware of the English equivalent of the Chinook Jargon names he applied: Wicked/Obscene (Mesahchie), Middle (Katsuk), Behind/End (Kimtah), Pig (Cosho). Why he picked these names is another question. He also knew about Himmelgeister Horn, and The Blob, and The Stump, and Spectre. Keep the fun coming, Harry. Don't make us wait for your next book!

Ray asks... That's easy. The Wild Hair Crack on Himmelgeister Horn (red CAG, p.110). The route drawn on the photo in the guide is in error. The lower section is correctly drawn, but we stayed out on the face all the way to the top of Himmel Point ("subpoint"). Incidentally, the Firey's name for this peak was Himmelgeister Horn, or Himmelgeisterhorn, which means "Horn of the Sky Spirit." To shorten it to Himmelhorn takes the spirit out of this name.

I think we all agree that Fred Beckey has been the premier pioneer in identifying and completing classic climbs of many of the great peaks in all of North America. His Cascade Alpine Guides cover a small area of his interest and expertise, and are the finest guides ever written on a mountain range for accuracy, thoroughness, and clarity. That he has compiled most of this information by research, map study, and interviews, rather than by personal hands-on experience (summiting 8-28% of the peaks in these guides), is notable. I think Harry is trying to make the point that when people say something like, "Beckey says this, or Beckey says that, or Beckey was off base here," it wasn't necessarily Beckey's experience. He simply wrote down what someone told him.

Harry Majors wrote.. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- All three volumes of CAG index a total of 1232 peaks, named and unnamed. Of these, Fred has climbed a recorded number of 192 peaks. This is equivalent to 16% If subdivided by each volume, the results are skewed. CAG-1 lists a total of 313 peaks. Of these, Fred has climbed a recorded number of 87. This is equivalent to 28%. CAG-2 lists a total of 451 peaks. Of these, Fred has climbed a recorded number of 36. This is equivalent to 8%. CAG-3 lists a total of 469 peaks. Of these, Fred has climbed a recorded number of 70. This is equivalent to 15%. The reason why the percentage figure for CAG-1 is so high, is because of the comparatively greater number of pinnacles present in the Enchantments, and relatively fewer number of significant peaks present south of Snoqualmie Pass. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Nice work, Harry. So Fred has done 192 peaks in the Washington Cascades that he felt were worthy, plus some of less than historic quality. I know he's also done Sitting Bull, and let's give him credit for Si, if Dru wants. He hasn't done a ton of tourist climbs. What others does anyone know about? Maybe Ray can squeeze a little blood out of the turnip. It would be interesting to compile his total WA list, including the Olympics.

It should be noted that if the CAGs have errors in route descriptions, the fault is not so much Fred Beckey's. The rare route goofs usually lie with the person whose brain Fred picked. That Fred got it right so often, especially when he'd never been to a particular peak, has always been the thing that has amazed me. Harry, do you have a number as to percentage of peaks listed in the various CAGs that Fred has actually stood atop? It will surprise.

Bingo, Paul. Here's a list of all the peaks in WA with 2000 feet (or more) of "clean" or "proven" prominence. http://howbert.netherweb.com/mountains/WA_all_2000P/WA_all_2000P_list_Psort.html And a map of all those summits: http://howbert.netherweb.com/mountains/WA_all_2000P/WA_all_2000P_map.gif

OK, since we are on the topics of prominence, and the Finney, Gee, Round, Higgins area (aka "Loggers Island"), and quizzes, what is the peak with the greatest prominence in Skagit County? Is it something like Dome, Eldorado, Snowfield, or Buckner, the Skagit County High Point, or something more mundane? For those not clued in to the prominence concept, it is the elevation difference between the summit of a peak and the lowest contour that encircles the peak, but no higher summit. If water were to rise to this encircling contour, it would cut the landform off as an island, and the elevation of the island would be the peak's prominence.

Tod asks: Any comments/thoughts on the original names of the peaks within Ragged Ridge? The short story on the Ragged Ridge names is that the 1966 FA party of the 8795' highest peak named it "Panther Peak," at the head of Panther Creek. The next 8680+ foot peak west was first climbed in 1968, and called "Mount Holyoke" after a party member's alma mater (OK, not the best name in the world). The 1970 FA party called the last high peak (8332') on this ridge, "Ragged End," and the 8600+ peak just east here "Gendarmes Peak," after the multiple spires on the summit ridge. A few years later, a guidebook author changed the names that the FA parties had applied to these peaks to Chinook jargon terms, some of which are not particularly inspiring concepts in English translation. The following translations are taken from George C. Shaw's 1909 work, "The Chinook Jargon." Mesahchie means "bad; wicked; evil; vile; sin; bitter; cruel; depravity; dissolute; dung; filthy; immodest; nasty; obscene; vice; insolence; unworthy; unruly; iniquity; unrighteous; naughty." Not a bad name, I guess, if you consider the quality of rock on some parts of this mountain. Katsuk means "the middle or centre of anything." Kind of a weak mountain name for a Top 100 peak. Kimtah means "behind; after; afterwards; last; since; back; rear; subsequent; younger." Another uninspired choice. Cosho is "pig." What's the thought here?

Tod- Our climb of Inspiration (on 7/4/92) in the pouring rain, through the waterfall, on a peak where you personally dodged the German translation of your name a couple of times (by rock and snow), was one of the more memorable trips I've ever had in the North Cascades, as well. Long day, but nothing like your athletic day-trip of Sahale, Boston, Buckner, and Horseshoe. I'm intrigued and happy to hear that the register on Boston is still intact, 35 years after Gary and I climbed it on 7/27/68. In those days, you could nearly always count on getting a history lesson out of the summit register. The register I mentioned above on the Ridge of Gendarmes had been undisturbed for 46 years (1939 to 1985) between Thompson and Bressler's visit and mine. And regarding Custer, on 8/10/71, we were able to tell that we probably had the second ascent of what was then called Matsaac Peak (Custer), and the 4th ascent of what was then called International Peak (Rahm). We weren't any more impressed with the quality of rock here than klenke, calling them "Rubble" and "Grunge" amongst ourselves. And Harry, Thanks for the update.

Harry- Thanks for the kind words. I may have poked around these hills a bit, but what these guys are pulling off in this generation is a quantum leap above. If you have an extra copy of your NWD of Custer's journal down the Upper Skagit, I'd sure like to complete the collection, please. Same address as last.

It is good to see Harry Majors back with his encyclopedic knowledge and analysis of the history of mountaineering in Washington. What Harry did in meticulously analyzing Henry Custer's cryptic 1859 journals of the Northwest Boundary Survey in his "Northwest Discovery" series in the 1980's, is beyond belief, and the post here on Mox is very enlightening. As far as the origin of the name "Twin Spires," a piece of this historic name puzzle was found on the top of one of the minor summits along the Ridge of Gendarmes when I climbed it on 7/4/85 (while Russ Kroeker stayed in camp, Shoe-Gooing his delaminated boot sole back on). Inside of a white, red, and blue Johnson & Johnson Waterproof Band-Aid (Borated Pad) metal box was a piece of crumpled paper that read, Sept 20, 1939 S.W. peak of south peak, Twin Needles (own name) We aren't very ashamed to turn back on this baby. It's got everything Will Thompson Calder Bressler Ptarmigan Club, Seattle We'll be back! So it looks like Thompson and Bressler (not Bill Cox, as CAG, p.128 reads) came up with the "Twin" idea. Since there were already "Twin Needles" in the Southern Pickets, named by Strandberg, Degenhardt, and Martin in 1932, perhaps Beckey made the alteration to "Spires."

Spectre (7840+, it was 7920+ on the 15' Challenger quad) T's off a little south of the ridge connecting Phantom and Swiss. It is just north of "Pickell Pass" (6038' Picket-Goodell Pass) . There's a short class 5 move required to climb it from the NE (Swiss) side. FA 7/29/80 by Reed Tindall, Stuart Ferguson, Peter Jewitt, and John Roper. Spectre's SW face is the most spectacular south-facing wall in the Northern Pickets, and is as yet undone, as far as I know, as is the nearly 4000'-vertical, full SW Ridge of West Fury rising out of Goodell Creek which goes over the "Pole of Remoteness," the most out-of-the-way place in the Cascades.