trad_guy

Doug asked, "Hey Trad Guy, How come there is no link from the cascades mountaineers site to yours?" Doug, go to CascadesMountaineers.org, click on links and scroll down to Northwest & Regional, Climbing Clubs and there it is just down from the Mazamas! Go to http://www.traditionalmountaineering.org/Links.htm and find CascadesClimbers, featured since the site began. CascadesMountaineers is listed under Mountaineering Organizations. There are more than 286 other selected links you will like. I am conducting a FREE seminar on self belayed Rapelling for Cascades Mountaineers and others on Saturday: http://www.traditionalmountaineering.org/Prospectus_Rappel_06-08.htm Be sure to Reserve a place, Doug. Thanks for your interest! --trad_guy

porter, Registered: 09/19/03, Posts: 15,881 porter writes "While its healthy to have more than one source of analysis on Accidents in North American Mountaineering, i prefer sources that try to interview the actual participants, rather than relying 3rd hand accounts." Hello again, porter- I am not writing for the AAC on this event that occurred on Mt. Rainier. I do not feel I should contact the participants in this sad disaster, and I did not try to contact David Gottlieb, "chief climbing ranger and incident commander in the rescue". I felt the facts spoke for themselves in this case. The three climbers seemed to be totally unprepared and they left the security of Camp Muir into the teath of a forecast blizzard. They did have an FRS radio, so they were not "purists". Perhaps they did not know that cell phones worked well in that particular "wilderness" location. (And a $100.00 GPS would have surely saved them.) Perhaps David Gottlieb will contact me. There are some questions. I faulted him for not helping the public better understand how traditional mountaineering risks can be, in part, mitigated by - - - --trad_guy

Feck, sprayer, Posts: 8407 Loc: Seattle, WA "I started climbing in the 70s and I learned then that you have to be aware that you are going places where you can't call for help. That is what you have to prepare for. Today we have a lot of fancy pants devices that we can use, but that doesn't mean that things are different. You still need to be prepared to go climbing knowing that you can't pick up your cell phone and dial 911. I was down on the northeast side of Rainier this last weekend. Guess what There was no cell phone reception. Go ahead and post links to your stupid website. I ain't clicking on them, and I would urge everybody else reading this to do the same. You obviously don't know what the fuck you're talking about." Hey Feck, you have so many quick posts (8,407) you just don't have time to read! Hey Feck, just how do you "prepare"? AND, FECK, WHAT WERE YOU DOING WITH A CELL PHONE ON THE NORTH EAST SIDE OF RAINIER? --trad_guy

eldiente Wrote: "Buy more gadgets and you'll be safe! Stupid. Reading it sounds like that this site is paid for by AT&T or Garmin. As a whole I'm not a fan of Cell Phones in the woods.. " Risk is an essential part of traditioanl alpine mountaineering. Here is a good analysis of the subject: http://www.traditionalmountaineering.org/Book_Risk.htm Here is a tragic event in Oregon that was carefully studied: http://www.traditionalmountaineering.org/Report_Hood_EpiscopalSchool.htm Are you familiar with this? Is this what you advocate, eldiente? --trad_guy

W writes: "trad_guy: You wouldn't know it from reading your website, but "traditional mountaineering" possibilities exist beyond volcanoes in Oregon and Washington. Many of these places have a) no cell phone coverage whatsoever b)no Sheriffs, search and rescue teams, or helicopters whatsoever and, believe it or not, c) poorly accurate or even non-existent maps. In such places, your Responsibilities #1, #3, and #4 have absolutely no value. #2 is just common sense. I am curious what your advice for mountaineering in these areas would be- stay home? If your format is meant to be a rigid template to be followed for all wilderness travelers, then the future of the exploratory spirit of human adventure is bleak indeed." The BASIC Responsibilities are just common sense. If I am climbing in Alaska I learned the basics long ago, (or I am going with a Guide?). A problem is that the Sheriff just says BE PRPARED! but does not give a person new to the Pacific North West, any idea of how to be prepared. Here is what I suggest: "A suggested minimum standard news advisory for all backcountry travelers" "We would like to take this opportunity to ask our visitors to the backcountry of Oregon to plan for the unexpected. Each person should dress for the forecast weather and take minimum extra clothing protection from a drop in temperature and possible rain or snow storm or an unexpected cold wet night out, insulation from the wet ground or snow, high carbohydrate snacks, two quarts of water or Gatorade, a map and compass and optional inexpensive GPS and the skills to use them, and a charged cell phone and inexpensive walkie-talkie radios. Carry the traditional personal "Ten Essentials Systems" in a day pack sized for the season and the forecast weather. Visitors are reminded to tell a Responsible Person where they are going, where they plan to park, when they will be back and to make sure that person understands that they are relied upon to call 911 at a certain time if the backcountry traveler has not returned. If you become lost or stranded, mark your location and stay still or move around your marked location to stay warm. Do not try to find your way until you are exhausted, or worse yet - wet. Wait for rescuers." W, have you read our mission? THE MISSION of TraditionalMountaineering.org "To provide information and instruction about world-wide basic to advanced alpine mountain climbing safety skills and gear, on and off trail hiking, scrambling and light and fast Leave No Trace backpacking techniques based on the foundation of an appreciation for the Stewardship of the Land, all illustrated through photographs and accounts of actual shared mountaineering adventures." TraditionalMountaineering is founded on the premise that "He who knows naught, knows not that he knows naught", that exploring the hills and summitting peaks have dangers that are hidden to the un-informed and that these inherent risks can be in part, identified and mitigated by mentoring: information, training, wonderful gear, and knowledge gained through the experiences of others. The value of TraditionalMountaineering to our Friends and Subscribers is the selectivity of the information we provide, and its relevance to introducing folks to informed hiking on the trail, exploring off the trail, mountain travel and Leave-no-Trace light-weight bivy and backpacking, technical travel over steep snow, rock and ice, technical glacier travel and a little technical rock climbing on the way to the summit. Whatever your capabilities and interests, there is a place for everyone in traditional alpine mountaineering.

Hello G-spotter: Do you read Accidents in North American Mountaineering? 60 years of analysis. The www.TraditionalMountaineering.org website is free. There is no advertizing. We offer Free Basic to Advanced Alpine Mountain Climbing Instruction. We hold free ice axe self belay and self arrest and crevasse rescue clinics: http://www.traditionalmountaineering.org/Photos_SteepSnowClimbing.htm Are you mentoring any climbers, G-Spotter? --trad_guy

Doug, an old hand asks: "Does anyone in Bend know this guy?" Doug, Gappertimmy knows me. Check us out! Read the website www.TraditionalMountaineering.org -trad_guy

cms829, states: "cell phone reception is not at all reliable on Rainier. at least verizon anyway. last year i was able to make one phone call from Ingraham. This year I couldnt get a signal on the lower part of the fuhrer finger or the DC at any point in time." Here is our page on the Four Basic Responsibilities: http://www.traditionalmountaineering.org/Basic.htm Note that Oregon statutes providing for compensation for Search and Rescue Services mandate a means of communication to 911. Here is a full recent Analysis: http://www.traditionalmountaineering.org/News_Lost_Mt.HoodClimbers.htm Note that an RMI employee confirmed that there is Cell coverage from the Lodge up to to Camp Muir. An RMI Senior Guide confirmed this statement and added that RMI Groups decending from Camp Muir check in by cell phone. --trad-guy

Stefan, Posts: 1748, states: "One of their 4 mountaineering responsibilities in the person's analysis: 4. The Fourth Responsibility is: Carry your common digital cell phone, turned on! I call B.S. Cell phone reception is not reliable and therefore is NOT a responsibility of a person in a wilderness setting." Here is our page on the Four Basic Responsibilities: http://www.traditionalmountaineering.org/Basic.htm Here is the specific paragraph: "4. The Fourth Responsibility is: Carry your common digital cell phone, turned on, in contact with any cell towers Insure that you have the personal option to call for medical or rescue services. I would prefer to call for help on Friday morning at the time my leg was broken and not have to wait until Sunday at 6PM when I will be reported missing by my Responsible Person. In our experience, there are very few areas in our Oregon Cascades where a cell phone is out of contact. Several cell phones in a group are far better than one. Phone rescuers on your cell phone with your exact UTM (NAD 27) GPS coordinates, your current condition and proposed plans. An important new free service is the ability of Rescuers to request from your mobile phone Provider, your general location triangulated from cell phone "ping" records or from a GPS chip in some new phones. Another option for many is to carry a $150 SPOT Satellite Messenger which can give your friends and/or 911 your exact GPS location. Oregon SAR Statutes require that you carry a means of communication such as a cell phone. Carry a personal cell phone turned on and positioned where it can best stay (warm and) in contact with the cell phone towers.: Note that Oregon statutes providing for compensation for Search and Rescue Services mandate a means of communication to 911. Here is a full recent Analysis: http://www.traditionalmountaineering.org/News_Lost_Mt.HoodClimbers.htm Note that an RMI employee confirmed that there is Cell coverage from the Lodge up to to Camp Muir. An RMI Senior Guide confirmed this statement and added that RMI Groups decending from Camp Muir check in by cell phone. --trad-guy

Climber dies from hypothermia in a brief storm on Mt. Rainier -- Analysis to aid in the prevention of a similar tragic loss: http://www.traditionalmountaineering.org/News_Lost_Mt.Rainier.htm --trad_guy

"It is kinda like Planter Fascitis.... but it is arthritis in the bones and soft tissues of both feet. The majority of the pain is in the toes heels and at the arch. I have some pain on the top of my foot. The thing that i am struggeling with is that my feet kill if i wear shoes that have too much support or not enough support... is there any one who makes custom hikers???" Muffy- If you live near Bend Oregon, there is a new store dedicated to high level runners and hikers. The store is owned by Rod Bien who also owns "Patagonia by Pandoras Backpack" in Bend. Rod is an elete long distance trail runner and a very dedicated guy. Here is a link to Rod Bien: http://www.fleetfeetbend.com/ --trad-guy

Muffy- It's not the Merrells, it is the costly special footbeds. Just use the Merrells and Thorlo "light hiker" model sox and walk five times a week, different distances and different speeds and elevation gains. Start out easy, back off when it hurts. "No brain, no gain". Your complicated foot muscles, tendons and tissues will adapt in a few weeks. Ankle support is a myth, propounded by boot makers and ski boot folks who just transfer stress to the knees. 95% of the PCT folks just use GoreTex type shoes like your Merrells. (I met one gal who had hiked to Oregon from Mexico in flop-flops because she got blisters from her boots the first few days.) Feet are strong (no, not stinky). ;-))

Hello Porter- I will add www.TraditionalMountaineering.org and also www.AlpineMountaineering.org "Free basic to advanced alpine mountain climbing instruction" MISSION "To provide information and instruction about world-wide basic to advanced alpine mountain climbing safety skills and gear, and on and off trail hiking, scrambling and light and fast Leave No Trace backpacking techniques based on the foundation of an appreciation for the Stewardship of the Land, all illustrated through photographs and accounts of actual shared mountaineering adventures." THE REASON TraditionalMountaineering is founded on the premise that "He who knows naught, knows not that he knows naught", that exploring the hills and summitting peaks have dangers that are hidden to the un-informed and that these inherent risks can be in part, identified and mitigated by mentoring: information, training, wonderful gear, and knowledge gained through the experiences of others. The value of TraditionalMountaineering to our Friends and Subscribers is the selectivity of the information we provide, and its relevance to introducing folks to informed hiking on the trail, exploring off the trail, mountain travel and Leave-no-Trace light-weight bivy and backpacking, technical travel over steep snow, rock and ice, technical glacier travel and a little technical rock climbing on the way to the summit. Whatever your capabilities and interests, there is a place for everyone in traditional alpine mountaineering. --trad_guy

In the Sierra Club in the 1970's on mixed company trips, we recommended everyone sleep naked. Most of those great trips were co-ed. We all stayed plenty warm as I recall. Of course, this is impossible today. It is not PC today. Life was very different in the 1970's: http://www.traditionalmountaineering.org/Photos_TopRopes.htm (Follow some of the other pages under Read More.) --trad_guy

Hi Dave- Here is my idea: http://www.traditionalmountaineering.org/FAQ_Best_GPS.htm We use the Geco 201 allot, too, with a USGS Quad map, of course. --trad_guy