johndavidjr

Beckey somewhat recently published a 600-page book on the history of the Cascades which required twenty years of highly meticulous labor and visiting dozens of libraries. Chounaird published highly reflective essays and an influential instruction book, but nothing at all in past thirty years that I know of. Who is/was more intellectual? My vote is, sadly, for Chounaird.

Beckey somewhat recently published a 600-page book on the history of the Cascades which required twenty years of labor and visiting dozens of libraries. Chounaird published highly reflective essays and an influential instruction book, but nothing at all in past thirty years that I know of. Who is/was more intellectual? My vote is, sadly, for Chounaird.

Beckey somewhat recently published a 600-page book on the history of the Cascades which required twenty years of labor and visiting dozens of libraries. Chounaird published highly reflective essays and an influential instruction book, but nothing at all in past thirty years that I know of. Who is/was more intellectual? My vote is, sadly, for Chounaird.

Beckey somewhat recently published a 600-page book on the history of the Cascades which required twenty years of labor and visiting dozens of libraries. Chounaird published highly reflective essays and an influential instruction book, but nothing at all in past thirty years that I know of. Who is/was more intellectual? My vote is, sadly, for Chounaird.

I have a Twin Peaks -- much like a Betamid. Works good. Also a Golight Hex -- a bit like the Megamid. I like it. I suspect the Megamid would be better choice, for me, of all of these. Though seems to me the lower and smaller a tent is, the warmer it is.

I don't remember the "crappy gully" as all that crappy. Not compared with actually "crappy" gullies... Nor do I remember much (any? little?) 5.6. The place where I wanted to bivvy, but didn't, was somewhere (anywhere!!!!) after topping out. The slog down, around Goat Pass and back to camp was, for me, a weakling, extremely unpleasant.

Interesting out-of-context quote from famous 1963 Chouinard AAJ article "Modern Yosemite Climbing:" I have always abhorred the tremendous heat, the dirt-filled cracks, the ant-covered foul-smelling trees and bushes which cover the [Yosemite] cliffs, the filth and noise of Camp 4 (the climbers’ campground) and worst of all, the multitudes of tourists which abound during the weekends and summer months ... The climbing as a whole is not very esthetic or enjoyable; it is merely difficult. During the last couple of years there has been in the air an aura of unfriendliness and competition between climbers, leaving a bitter taste in the mouth. Like every disease, it was initially spread by a few, and now it has reached a point where practically no one is blameless. http://alpinebriefs.wordpress.com/aaj-gems-2/

genepires, g-spotter and zimzam are among the true intellectual contributors to this site. Remarkable ability to evaluate peer-reviewed literature. You all must look forward to higher pay, in jobs related to the Food and Drug Administration. I really envy your smarts, guys.

G-Spotter: Your comment is foolish and incorrect. The authors I linked to are for the most part respected academic researchers attached to major medical institutions. Mostly the papers were in peer-reviewed journals. The only author among the links who was not writing for an academic/medical audience is Robert Rockwell, an engineer by training, whose work reviewing the relevant scientific literature was the subject of a "National Geographic Adventure" magazine article (July 2002), which generally confirmed his conclusions. I believe the Rockwell link is to a page sponsored by the National Park Service, but his article is presently found on a number of Web sites. Drink up.

The half-dozen articles linked above, are mainly written by scientists and/or cite extensive literature. The mostly wiseacre comments in response suggest the folklore about water is correct, and the science is wrong, because, well, it's common sense. I'm now scared about falling off edge of horizon, and will take breadcrumbs next time I go to the forest.

Talk of a base layer on top of a base layer seems to be a confusion of categories. Always buy all of the finest and most expensive clothing available. You get what you pay for. Does this help?

Due to lack of innate ability, or perhaps education, many are unable to distinguish between credible and non-credible sources of information. This is true regarding Internet, as well as standard newsstands and libraries. Yet I don't believe this explains why people never change their political views based on information. It's something more profound and stupid and interesting.

Nearly impossible to make somebody change their mind about politics based on new information. Weird, but true. Odd that health-related topics are so similar, but this is problematic. For example, link with smoking and health was understood for decades before this was popularly accepted. My girlfriend dead-set that vitamin C is theraputic regarding the common cold, despite science to contrary. Perhaps psychologically, health topics are like politics and brand loyalty. Works for me...Love de Black Diamond climbing gear and always will. Y'all could just eat lots of oranges, and watch sun revolve around the earth.... My point is perhaps somewhat like telling the average hunter that it's okay to ban machine guns.............

Among those with most to fear from Giardia are indeed "promiscuous male homosexuals," according to an excellent article on backcountry Giardia scare by Robert Rockwell linked immediately below. http://www.yosemite.org/naturenotes/Giardia.htm More Adults Only reading: http://www.yosemite.org/naturenotes/Derlet_Water_SEKI_2007.htm http://www.adventureplus.org/latimes.htm http://www.wemjournal.org/pdfserv/i1080-6032-006-02-0162.pdf http://www.wemjournal.org/pdfserv/i1080-6032-015-04-0235.pdf http://www.wemjournal.org/wmsonline/?request=get-abstract&issn=0953-9859&volume=004&issue=02&page=0147 http://www.wemjournal.org/pdfserv/i0953-9859-003-03-0241.pdf

If one is in backcountry for less than two weeks and gets giardiasis, then it's likely exposure occurred before entering backcountry. If in BC for a week or less, it's nearly certain. Verstehen? Your friend on the Rouge probably shared some trail mix with a grubby backpacker a week before he got the symptoms. If you want information, you've got to READ about this, and not just listen to your mother or your friends.

Dannible, with all due respect for your experience, you haven't done your reading assignments. Giardiasis can take two weeks or more to develop. If you were on Baker continuously for more than two weeks, then you can be somewhat confident you got it there and not at Denny's the week before, where the risk is not inconsiderable. But if so, you probably didn't get it from contaminated water. If during those two weeks you didn't shared food with anyone, and never let anyone drink from your water bottles, (remember, 10% of people carry Giardia) or use your hands to pass objects to anyone, etc., etc., only then can you say that you know you got Giardiasis from drinking untreated water. COMMONLY how people get Giardiasis in the U.S. is from contaminated food and from hand-to-mouth contact, and remember there are millions of cases annually and the disease is studied intensively.

There are millions of cases annually. If you go out in the wilderness, drink untreated water and get sick, it's highly probable you got it like anybody else, from contaminated food, or shaking the wrong person's hand.

Ten percent of Americans are asymptomatic Giardia carriers. So lots of people do get sick from it, but not from backcountry water. Plenty of science explaining this in links provided above. Read and learn. Treating water if you like is fine, though it might distract from hygiene, which is the relevant concern while grubbing around with friends. BTW I can see that a cheap car-camping tent, given its relative complexity, might be more problematic than a small and simple shelter, especially if seams aren't carefully sealed. I've no experience, and no problem with your word on it.

Wise and informed people are familiar with this medical article: http://www.wemjournal.org/pdfserv/i1080-6032-015-04-0235.pdf And this one http://www.wemjournal.org/pdfserv/i1080-6032-006-02-0162.pdf and at minimum this one http://www.yosemite.org/naturenotes/Giardia.htm Lots of uninformed people have never read this stuff...One simply doesn't know how they formed their opinions. Probably the same way they decided it's better to pay $300 than $19 for a cheap, coated puptent with a sewn-in floor.

I feel guilt and even shame about this, but almost never treat water.

Potential confusion about term "Tarptent" which is brand name of somewhat expensive line of light-weight tents made in PNW. They have integral coated floor and coated canopy. Nice, but not so good in snow or other circumstances with relatively high condensation problems. Super-dirt-cheap Wal-Mart backpacker is somewhat comparable in performance and weight. Better for snow are the various "tarp shelters" or tarps or whatever.....Floorless design drains condensation.

My only experience camping on Olympic Penninsula in winter was at low elevations in various locations. I used an REI rectangular tarp in all instances, which are now purely historical. These things BTW, can be configured as enclosed pyramids, effective in snow, though it requires slight ingenuity. My original point was that the $260 Tarptent probably performs similarly to a $19 Wal-Mart puptent. This is what the "backpackers" were so upset about. This crowd seems unduly interested in what brand of Band-Aides® one uses.... and various weird and pointless stuff like that. Both the Wal-Mart puptent and "Tarptent" are practically not useable in winter. Unlike many tarp shelters... of which the BD Beta/Mega are probably the best known.

I had a winterized version of NF "Frog" style tent. Somewhat cramped and heavy. Due to fly and stormflaps, the thing was much warmer than Hex or Twin Peaks, which I've used fair bit in winter & summer. Used a Sierra Designs Half-Moon (?) 3-season lots in winter. Not as warm. Stolen at Stuart N.Side trailhead 1 day prior to big fire in August 94, I think. In severe bug-threat might go with Wal-Mart. Junking the fiberglass poles would bring it to negligible weight. If it in fact has storm flaps like my old K-Mart job, is more weather-proof than current "Tarptent" and is generally comparable summer shelter, though obviously smaller and vastly cheaper.

For same price or sometimes much less, the Golite, MSR, BD and OR shelters all look better than Cloudburst or Squall for iffy weather. I like my Hex for four seasons. My $20 K-Mart coated pup-tent worked great for a two-month bicycle trip, and at least as many other nights, frequently on beaches amid biting sand fleas, where floor and netting was very welcome and grit eventually ground the floor into mesh. Spent only one night in moderately severe weather using K-Mart tent. Floor did me in. Condensation and melting snow had no place to go... except into my sleeping bag. Not a ski-tent. Very unpleasant. Would expect similar issue with any coated canopy attached to coated floor, i.e. Cloudburst etc. I had a Mt. Hardwear "Batwing" for a while, which was possibly very similar to earlier "Tarptent/Squall designs. No floor, open in front with netting "door." Heavy rain would spray through netting.

Bug netting (finest quality for extreme sleeping).