johndavidjr

Putting aside question of aimless insults in English, classic or cretin, nobody's posted relevant information comparing Rajd to Starlight. Idea is, simply, that you can purchase marginal "tents" or shelters, that are functionally equal, for a very high or a very low price. Remarkably contentious point for a few, seriously challenged people.

"'I wolde I had thy coillons in myn hond In stide of relikes or of seintuarie. Lat kutte hem of, I wold thee help hem carie; They shul be shryned in an hogges toord!'" "Thou accursed toad-spotted whore-master!" "Thou beslubbering fat-kidneyed infection!" "What shall I call thee when thou art a man ? "

Am "cowed" (appropriately) by all the remarkable powers of analysis on display here. Moo-uh!

My main current tent, Golite Hex, I acquired after my best friend, the great Northwest climber, fish wrangler and cow poke, Ben Dover, died of AIDS.....He'd put y'all to shame. I feel much safer around here with a tent like that. It's probably the "severe alpine conditions" that make some of you "men" so desperate. BTW it's not "Wal-Mart vs Hilleberg," but "Rajd vs Starlight."

My long-gone parents bought me an REI tent with cotton canopy and coated nylon floor. It was yellow. It had an "A-Frame" in front and the much lower and narrower back had a single pole. Something like this is pictured in foreground of a photograph of Mount Fury in 60s and 70s editions of a well-known how-to book....It somewhat resembles a Wenzel Starlite. (But I think it may have cost $35, rather than $20.) I replaced this in 1973 with an REI tarp and used this exclusively for six or seven years (including limited ski-touring and several weeks in BC, Washington and a month in Europe and Iceland). Acquired K-mart pup-tent & used this extensively for another 8-9 years. Don't use something like this in the off season....

Ray Jardine describes spending a number of seasons camping mostly at or above treeline with neophytes in Colorado, using builders' plastic in lieu of tents.....two or three decades ago. (For the historically challenged, please do look up Jardine's record). Today, many (sadly not most) people are over-paid (or wish desperately that they were) and have an increasingly unhealthy fascination with boutique camping equipment as a means of signalling manliness and bravery. They'll tell you that camping at tree line in Cascades in Summer is act of death defying bravery that can only be accomplished by spending thousands of dollars......... They feel that those who drive a Ford rather than a Lexus are less manly or intelligent. This defines cretinism. Er.. Mountaineering tents certainly have their place, but speaking realistically, they are mainly used by the uniformed (more money than brains) for circumstances where building plastic would suffice. Of course, the Hillieberg Rajd is not a mountaineering tent.

Jake advises that to risk one's life in severe alpine conditions with cheap equipment is stupid. Where'd he hear that? He then re-posts various arguments revealing his idiocy. Am concerned Jake is at risk from being hit by a car when he walks to his grocery store with food stamps. We will all be responsible if this happens. Needs a leash. Can anybody help? Is there a number for Washington social services????

Yes it's complex. "G" and "M" you see, are respectively, the first letters in the title "General Motors." Hence, sometimes, the corporation is called "GM." A tiny group of elite stock analysts know this company is based in Michigan. (Sortta like Boeing is based in Chicago.) This information enables them to afford the Swedish tents made by magic elves in Tacoma. (and to avoid mistake of purchasing North Face brand from larger retailers.) In general, this whole area is advanced concept that really, you needn't trouble yourself about. Sorry for the needlessly obscure, elitist jargon. MUCH MORE IMPORTANTLY to your survival: worry about death from "severe alpine conditions" as Jake has pointed out. Are you actually brave enough to fall asleep in these circumstances, and do you have enough money? The number of campers who "wake up dead" in Washington in July and August is an increasing scandal. It's due to the prevailing "severe alpine conditions." This is obviously because they don't shop at the correct store, and also because they are stupid and insuficiently tough and brave and rich. You gotta be careful and smart. Bravery and sheer toughness alone, are (often tragically) insufficient. Actually BEING Jake may be the only thing that can actually save you from... not being an asshole.

yOU COULD DIE USING THAT THING....are YOU STUPID??? But it could help in "severe alpine conditions" that threaten your very life....which is so typical in facing the terrible Cascades summer weather and costs more in bravery, and wages, than most people can afford. Only the strong survive.....

GM is what a select few, really elite people (Not Glen Beck) know as General Motors Corp. The "dumbing down" I perceive here, is part of the point of my original post. It's too easy to "con" people into magical thinking that sleeping out in summertime weather requires death-defying bravey and extremely expensive items that can protect you from "severe alpine conditions." What you might ACTUALLY appreciate, among your frequent nightmares about death in your sleep in a pleasant summer night............. is a little bug netting and a waterproof canopy, along with minimal weight and bulk.

Washington is culturally like a westward extension of Minnesota. Even the subtle local patois reflects this, and I suppose there are historical reasons. I hear they make the greatest Swedish tents there....

Its way more funny to watch you argue with yourself. $20 doesn't even fill have a tank of gas $20 barely covers three value meals at McD's Anyone who is so cheap that they are willing to risk their life using piece of shit equipment in severe alpine conditions is a stupid mother fucker Cascades in summer don't generally present "severe alpine conditions" that are a risk to life. Where did you get this notion?

I love Sarah Palin because she hotter than a Hilleberg tent and worth all of $365.....Therefore....

(Have moved to central Michigan, from Jersey City. ARE YA HAPPY NOW???? My prospects now would be better in Wenatchee. Hence my interest in Wal-mart.) But getting back to point: A $365 Hilleberg tent is quite similar, functionally, to a $20 Wenzel tent (available at Wal-Mart). Nobody has tried to refute this, nor even explicitly disagreed. Moreover, it's simply factual. Neither of these tents are particularly versatile, but both have some utility in fairly narrow range of conditions. Presently my main tent is Go-lite Hex (Now Shagri-La 3). No floor nor bug net. When am REALLY scared of bugs, I revert to a Sierra Designs Divine Light single-wall/breathable solo tent from about 1990. Lost the poles, sadly, from TNF (Wal-Mart client) 1990 Starfire about 7-8 years ago. Replacement cost is close to $200 from manufacturer

As an atheist, I'd say metaphorically, you are ALL DOOMED TO HELL , at a much lower level than the one at at which I will be sadly spending ALL OF ETERNITY. This unfortunate FACT is due to your inability to realize the intensely STUPID error of your ways, which is essentially, and somewhat ironically, the same vacuuity of all of consumer society. If you look at it, I offer a simple and reasonable set of facts strictly regarding A vs. B... and you offer so-called jokes, that minority of 16-year olds might find amusing. ABANDON YE ALL HOPE!!!

You are demonstrably both a far less a form of life than my two dogs. Rather than refute the sadly obvious, as expected you just piss on a tree.

Scummy Wal-Mart is among other things, the biggest customer of the corporation that currently owns "The North Face," which waaay back in my day, and still slightly today, was/is cutting edge. Dumbass rabble will riot when their MooU state beer team doesn't win football game. The tiny "elite" of this particular crowd end up as Wal-Mart managers, or working for their daddys' scummy small businesses, which one way or another are ripping off locals. Riots aren't means of reasonble discourse, nor comical. Just stupid. Like you. Like morons needing understanding and state support, who frequently end up as roadkill because traffic lights are "too intellectual." A lot of these people think they're Republicans. Mostly, they are unable to actually read. Rather than original thought, they can sometimes repeat what they hear on television or what they pick up from selected advertising that has (easily) conned them into a personal identification. A simple analysis reveals their utter poverty of spirt and simple humanity. Thus their pathetic and truly worthless form of " existence," needing quotes, which often makes dogs look like a much higher form of live.

Really I'm surprised you haven't been killed crossing the street.

Regarding a simple & narrow subject, I have a view backed by objective easily verified facts as well as subjective experience. If you think I therefore believe this affects the retail industry, you make irrational & unwarranted inferrences that obviously call into question your capacity for even the most simple analysis.

Part of the race-to-the-bottom problem you apparently perceive with regard to Wal-Mart, etc., is that the individual's role is utterly without significance. Boycotting Wal-Mart is a well-intentioned but simplistic and ineffective notion, I think. "VF Corp. (VFC), whose brands include Nautica, The North Face, and Wrangler, also sells more merchandise to Wal-Mart than to any other customer...." --Business Week Magazine, Feb. '09 But if it makes you feel better, then Wenzel Starlight tents, Wrangler jeans, Circus Time popcorn, et al., ad infinitum, can be acquired from various other retailers in addition to Wal-Mart, & generally for about the same price. Beaver pelts & cotton bales can be also swapped for shoes, in some places.

From the Wenzel (Wal-Mart) Wenzel Starlight product description: "[starlight] is highly weatherproof and very durable, but it is a shelter – not a tent – and so puts only a single layer of [impermiable] fabric between you and the elements.... [The] single wall design is, by nature, more prone to condensation than a double wall tent. To combat this, we put no-see-um mesh into the the top third of the door to promote cross ventilation." This is a brilliant design innovation, worth every penny. But the coated floor will trap condensation to a greater extent than floorless designs. See more of above description here; http://estore.websitepros.com/1764795/-strse-9/Hilleberg-Rajd-Ultralight-Shelter/Detail.bok

Not just making it up. Smart people make distinctions. Dumb people don't understand, and therefore attempt jokes, but lack this ability.

You guys are talking pure sh*t about a really simple question. If you can explain how these two items are functionally different (they aren't) then fine. Other than that, y'all are talking through yer hats and saying folks should just burn their money. Native Americans in 1700 didn't know much about steel. Today, they can acquire tool for spreading peanut butter virtually for free. It's also still possible to spend thousands of dollars on a knife. Point is, in part, that available manufacturing technology changes.

$365: http://estore.websitepros.com/1764795/-strse-9/Hilleberg-Rajd-Ultralight-Shelter/Detail.bok $20: http://www.wenzelco.com/details.aspx?NavID=283 Functionally similar.

Yeah cool people who like hot chicks go for swedes at $365 and scummy dumb idiots onlhy like the $20 Wal-Mart job only . Personally, and obviously, I only like street wh*r*s for $10 or less...God Bless Our Sponsors!!!