tomcat

There's the big fallacy. Again (as stated before in this very thread) ... the US was not born from peace. The American way of life, in a large part, comes from wars fought in the past.

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/iraq_poll030321.html

It's dang hard being a one man Army . I'm glad we agree we need to take him out. I believe many Iraqis feel this same way. I just saw on the news several Iraqi citizens (along with several US Marines), cutting up a giant picture of Saddam with a boxcutter. They certainly don't seem like they're protesting the conflict. It's a shame we have so many people in our own country who do. It's a shame that you aledge to have served to protect the freedom of Americans, and then slam your fellow citizens when they attempt to exercise those freedoms. Seems kind of dipshit to me... The only dipshit around here is you .. you bring up a discussion about war, I oppose your beliefs and bring up several facts, you don't dispute them with any kind of logical argument (go ahead, read back through this thread and bring up one intelligent argument on your behalf), but instead call me names. You're either blind or dumb. I pick the latter.

It's dang hard being a one man Army . I'm glad we agree we need to take him out. I believe many Iraqis feel this same way. I just saw on the news several Iraqi citizens (along with several US Marines), cutting up a giant picture of Saddam with a boxcutter. They certainly don't seem like they're protesting the conflict. It's a shame we have so many people in our own country who do.

I get all my CLP from www.cheaperthandirt.com They have a 16oz. trigger sprayer for $11.93 .. the downside is shipping costs and the fact that you have to make a minimum order.

OK OK I'm done! Good discussion some of you.

And by the way, the only person who has offered intelligent discourse in the peace side's favor on this entire thread has been mattp. Way to contribute to the argument Kurt! Pat yourself on the back for your powerful rebuttals!

Remember it's not what you believe, it's reality that matters. Keep on lying to yourself.

Fleblebleb .... WAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!! I can't understand tom's articulate arguments .. WAAAAAAAH!!!

Please please point out my "playground logic". I challenge you to bring that to the table .. where is my playground logic at fleblebleb? I understand you are frustrated with your lack of understanding concerning the current Iraq invasion, but don't take it out on those of us who are attempting to uncloud your brain. I haven't said a single word about my personal opinion of the Iraq war Tom. I'm just here for watching you. Don't fall off the horse! There's no horse here .. there's right and wrong, and those who regret being wrong and see the fallacies of their thought. Those who regret being wrong serve to construct the very horse you speak of. You guys are making this too easy on me. Like taking candy from a baby.

Please please point out my "playground logic". I challenge you to bring that to the table .. where is my playground logic at fleblebleb? I understand you are frustrated with your lack of understanding concerning the current Iraq invasion, but don't take it out on those of us who are attempting to uncloud your brain.

I don't see your brilliant points being brought up here .. bring them to the table so I can argue them just like I've rebuked the rest! That is if you're not all talk.

Rebuttal : Point 1) Who lied and told you Iraq doesn't have a nuclear weapons program? Read the following link by the Nuclear Control Institute which may help to clear things up for you. http://www.nci.org/iraq/iraq511.htm Of particular note here is the fact that Iraq maintains large stockpiles of Uranium .. of which over 3 tons are unaccounted for in their weapons declarations. Point 2) Perhaps you missed Colin Powell's speech to the United Nations a few weeks back which CLEARLY outlined how Iraq has harbored terrorists. The evidence of this is quite clear. I will attempt to find a source on the net. Point 3) I fail to see how this will not make us safer? Have you seen how this shock and awe campaign has been unfolding today? The 'war' has almost already been won! I don't know about you, but if I meet someone and they kick my ass very badly, I try and avoid them in the future. Same goes for international muscle. What makes you think that once the world sees what kind of damage we inflict upon Iraq, and with great ease, that they will escalate efforts to terrorize us? What kind of flawed logic is that? You use the example of the Afghanistan conflict, saying that, "we sure don't see any progress toward democracy in Afghanistan and I highly doubt we will see it in Iraq". I've got news for you .. the purpose of the Afghani invasion was not to remove the Afghani regime, but to destroy Al-Quaeda. Therefore, you cannot realistically compare the results of the current Iraqi conflict with that of Afghanistan. My advice is wait until the war is over, and then tell me if this didn't work. If these actions don't prevent another September 11th, I'll eat my words and wear leather chaps and a jockstrap to the next Pub Club.

fleblebleb, what are you talking about? I rebutted your comments with the article I copied and pasted (see mattp comments above your last post). You caught me matt .. I couldn't resist bringing such a powerfully written article to this thread. Now you've got my sources cited, let's hear some responses!

Still no logical arguments. On a sidenote, turn it to channel 5 and watch Saddam get BOMBED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I agree, I think he's a smart cookie. Shock & Awe baby!

Hey Mike, I don't know you but take a shot at Saddam for me!

ARE you fucking joking you troll??? as adventuregal already stated:"Haven't contracts already been given to US Oil companies to rebuild the wells, etc. after Bush is done blowing them up? In the current administration's eyes, US control of oil=more money=more power. Also, Much of Europe and Japan get a high perecentage of their oil from the Middle East. Controlling the majority of the world's oil sources is just another tool our government can use to manipulate other countries. It's not about oil for the US. We have enough. It's about staying in the position as the dominant world power. So although the war is not completely about oil, it seems to be a definite factor in determining our government's actions. Then again... What do I know? I'm just another one of those uneducated college students. Let's just hope it's all over soon... please read this book THE CREATURE FROM JEKYLL ISLAND should clear up all the confussion.... Hey bro, go read what I wrote above .. that should clear up my rebuttals to Adventuregal's arguments. I still haven't seen any logical arguments. It's propaganda like THE CREATURE FROM JEKYLL ISLAND that gets the peace lovers in a frenzy. Sure, if you only read one book in your life, you may adapt to the fallacy that this war is for oil.

It's understandable for those with no logical arguments to feel frustrated when they can't get their point accross .. I would feel frustrated too if my argument didn't have a leg to stand on. BOMB SADDAM!

I tried.

ashcroftian

How am I on a soapbox? You're always going to get someone feeling this way when their opinion gets debated .. this is because one person feels they are right, and this same person feels the other is wrong. This is inherent condescention in a way because no matter how you argue, you are attempting to take credibility away from the other person's argument. If you feel this puts me on a soapbox, then like I said earlier, that's your problem. I stand by my opinions 100% whether that puts me on a soapbox, or makes me the evil villain of death. Bomb Saddam! And quit being so damned touchy feely!

And I want verifiers! I want verifiers to verify the sources and verifiers to verify the verifiers!

Cite WHICH sources AlpineK? You name them, I'll cite them. It's hard to believe that the only thing preventing you from presenting logical rebuttals is the notion that I didn't cite my sources. In my opinion, there are no sources to cite in the above posts. If you feel differently, point me to the fact in question and, like I said, I would be more than happy to cite a legitimate source. But please don't let this affect your ability to argue logically. A good debator will have no problem picking apart a counter argument regardless of whether or not sources have been cited for the point they're arguing against. Edit : And while we're on the subject of citing sources, I want to see sources cited for the war for oil argument.

Just as I thought, you can't think for yourself and you need your buddies to tell you the war is for oil and can't come up with one single iota of logic to argue your point. My point has been made. Go US! Bomb Saddam!