tomcat

Hey fleblebleb, by the way, I don't have a problem with educated people disagreeing with the war. It's when I see the "No war for oil" crowd that I begin to get condescending. If you agree with the ignorant opinion that this war is about oil, then you too are ignorant and that's a F-A-C-T Jack. If you don't agree, brush that comment aside (which should be easy to do if you don't agree) and voice your true dissent .. so I can rebuke with facts.

Read my bit about uneducated folks asserting their opinions on this matter. Uneducated, that's rich. Rephrase: Read my bit about people who don't agree with me asserting their opinions about this matter. Don't take offense Fleblebleb, it's an inside joke between myself and big Al .. I don't expect you or even her to see the humor in it, but I sure do.

Read my bit about uneducated folks asserting their opinions on this matter.

HAHAH .. it's the old take the 10,000th post away from Dru trick .. it works every time! I do like your viagra explanation though.

Nice take Dru .. can I compel you to make 10,000?!

I object to the individuals who don't have a pissing notion of the implications of this conflict. Many of the war protesters I see are wearing T-Shirts with really ignorant slogans on them. For example, "No war for oil". Where have these shits been living? This war is not about oil at all .. and the very notion that is based on oil is founded on pure ignorance. I hear the war protesters chanting IGNORANT things like, "1-2-3-4 we dont need this racist war." SHUT THE FUCK UP! This war is not about racism, this war is not about oil, this war is not about greed, this war is about removing a very large threat to humanity. A lot of these war protesters are uneducated and ignorant .. and their ignorance stems from them either trying to fit in with the peace crowd because their friends are a part of it, or because they are feeling touchy-feely with naive disregard for the reality of the situation. I have thus far not heard a single argument against the war which holds any water. I haven't seen a single argument against the Iraqi invasion on this thread that has any merit, other than people's feelings. Yes, people are going to be killed, but I've said it before .. it sure beats the alternative .. which is waking up to find the whole world suffering from a biological attack. And biological weapons can be a bit on the nasty side ... foaming from the mouth, internal bleeding, gasping for air, blindness, death ... the effects are said to be extremely painful and spread ferociously. Do you care to find out first hand how detrimental the effects of Biological weapons can be? You can't just sit back and wait for the inevitable to happen all the while claiming your love for humanity is the perfect argument .. if this is you, you are living in LALA land!

I was responding to Necronomicon's idea that I need to put my money where my mouth is and enlist .. I wanted him to know I've already done my time. I do think people should have to serve in the military .. not because I don't think people who don't aren't qualified to comment on these issues (I never said that), but merely because A LOT of individuals take for granted the freedoms they receive by being a US citizen. Maybe if they did their time in the military, they'd understand this a little better.

If I could just get up onto Hood safely, I'd be going after Yocum Ridge. But this weather is suck!

Actually Trask, I consider myself pretty right wing (I like guns and things that go boom) compared with the others on this site and I haven't met anyone I didn't like at a Pub Club (except for one person and she knows who she is). None of this shit comes up in person .. it's all about drinking beer and climbing mountains at Pub Club. You should come through to the Seattle PC next week.

Fuckin A Glen, I don't know if you're for this invasion or against, but I agree with every word you said.

I see where you may have erroneously thought I contradicted myself, but let me explain I agree the resolution was designed to be tough .. and that the US believed when it constructed the resolution that the Iraqi regime was not going to live up to the resolution. HOWEVER, I believe Iraq needs to be disarmed, and I also believe this was a good tactic to go about doing it. Those aren't contradictory, they are complementary .. complementary my dear watson.

Do me a favor .. go read resolution 1441 and, in light of all mitigating circumstances, you tell me if you think the resolution was followed word for word. If not, you can't disagree with my opinion. Don't try and twist this on me telling me I believe GW Bush -- I do the reading for myself and draw my own conclusions -- something the peace protester crowd is obviously having problems with. My convictions are not influenced by one person, or what one person has said -- I make my own investigations and draw my own conclusions from these investigations. It's this simple. So now you know I've read resolution 1441 and I have seen evidence of Saddam willingly disregarding the resolution, please contest my beliefs with hard facts like I have just done. Nope, you are correct. They have not followed the spirit or the letter of the resolution. But diplomacy isn't limited to blindly following pieces of paper written long ago, in a different context and for various and sundry motives. If you want justification to fight a war, then by all means go ahead and write an overly rigid UN resolution, then follow it to the letter regardless of other factors (like Blix saying that they are finally making progress; like the fact that Iraq is totally contained (300,000 surrounding troops!) and that there is no immediate or even medium-term threat to anyone. Do people really go to war over pieces of paper? I suppose they do...pretty sad. I kind of agree with your assessment of the resolution. I agree the US designed the resolution to make an excuse to invade and disarm Iraq. But I firmly believe this needs to be done, and I haven't heard a single argument of rebuttal that makes any bit of sense .. I've heard strictly touchy- feely, compassionate arguments from the war protesters that aren't rooted in the smallest facet of reality. Until I hear a good argument, I continue to stand by my beliefs 100%. Round four!

Yes, excellent, lets close our eyes, click our heels and return to Kansas. And let's not concern ourselves with the lives of those other human beings...Iraqi civilians and conscripts. Lets just "kick their ass" and minimize our own suffering. I cry for everyone over there and won't be happy until EVERYONE stops killing one another in this senseless war...matters not whether they are American, Iraqi, Kuwaiti or British. How senseless would the idea of this war be had your entire family been wiped out by bilogical weapons at the hand of Saddam Hussein, and the US hadn't acted beforehand to prevent this? Would you be blaming GW Bush for not acting? Would you blame yourself for not acting? Or would you continue to preach peace and love all the while looking past the realities of this new world?

Do me a favor .. go read resolution 1441 and, in light of all mitigating circumstances, you tell me if you think the resolution was followed word for word. If not, you can't disagree with my opinion. Don't try and twist this on me telling me I believe GW Bush -- I do the reading for myself and draw my own conclusions -- something the peace protester crowd is obviously having problems with. My convictions are not influenced by one person, or what one person has said -- I make my own investigations and draw my own conclusions from these investigations. It's this simple. So now you know I've read resolution 1441 and I have seen evidence of Saddam willingly disregarding the resolution, please contest my beliefs with hard facts like I have just done.

Round two .. fight!

E-Bomb is what Necro was on when he wrote that last post.

I agree with that (except for the point about Vietnam -- see below for my rebuttal) .. my point in letting people know I've served is because they kept throwing it up in my face .. telling me to put my money where my mouth is. I just wanted to let them know I put my money where my mouth is, and put my life on the line to defend all Americans. I would have never brought it up had it not been shoved in my face as an argument. tomcat's take on War : 1) UN Inspections did not work .. those who thought they were working were being fooled by Saddam and his Regime. 2) Resolution 1441, which was signed by every single member of the UN (including France and Russia), CLEARLY OUTLINED the steps necessary to prevent a US Coalition led invasion. Saddam Hussein broke MANY (not just 1) of the regulations put forth in Resolution 1441 ... hence the invasion we are now seeing. 3) We shouldn't need any more reasons beyond #2, but I will provide them because people are having a tough time comprehending. 4) Saddam has chemical weapons, we have plenty of intelligence that confirms this, and Saddam will use them at any time. Just because we're not invading him doesn't mean he's not going to use them. 5) Saddam's people are suffering and cannot speak out publicly to attest to this fact. They will be very thankful after they have been liberated and can lead their lives how they choose without fear of repression or torture from the Iraqi regime. If you don't believe it, wait until the war is over and get back to me. This war is NOT like Vietnam .. this war is an entirely new kind of war against an entirely new kind of threat. There has never before in the history of the world been a threat of this magnitude .. a threat which affects each and every person on the face of this earth. Many people have a hard time visualizing this or comprehending this, but just because you're having a tough time comprehending it doesn't mean the threat isn't real .. IT IS. I highly suggest people get educated about the threats to them by biological weapons .. remember, this world is all about the survival of the fittest .. if you're not mentally able to comprehend the implications of our current conflict with Iraq, then you my friend are not the fittest. These may be hard facts to live with, but it's the truth and the truth hurts sometimes. If it sounds like I'm being condescending, maybe I am .. if my opinion makes me appear as such, that's your problem and not mine.

Why am I a Dunce Necro? You have labeled me a Dunce, but given me no explanation. Your comments lead me to believe you are beginning to get frustrated with hearing logical arguments that threaten your unfounded beliefs. If you would like to have a debate in a mature way, I would love to dissect your "arguments" one by one. Lay them out in an orderly fashion and I'll tell you how you're full of shit. Necro, what kind of education do you have?

And before anyone goes about being hypocritical now, I've been in the military (2nd Cav). How about you Necro?

I keep seeing the same drivel from you .. nothing new, just insults and meaningless conversation. If you have a better plan, or if you think you have it all figured out, lay it on the line right here in the spray forum and let's hear it. If not, don't expect me to respect your opinion (or even understand it for that matter).

I think it should be a law that every person should serve in the military at some point. I used to disagree with this stance, but now I agree. We have millions of American's taking for granted what a wonderful place we live in, and what wonderful freedoms we have. Well I've got news for you, FREEDOM ISN'T FREE. We wouldn't have these freedoms if it weren't for the battles fought, and the people that died as a result. You're living in a utopian world, living a utopian dream that could not possibly be manifested in reality. How's that for a wake up call?

Ahh, that's because of the extreme wave of ignorance that has penetrated this [once] great nation. We have millions of uneducated people out there who have no idea what the implications are from this conflict. You may very well be one of them (I don't know you, so I can't make this judgment here at cc.com). And I've already pulled triggers for the US. I served my country .. have you?

YOU STUPID FUCK!!! Let's kill 100,000 people becuase Saddam kills 100 a year? No, I'm sorry, it's because he "might" harm us in the future. No, wait, this war is about peace. Please, go over there and throw yourself at the Republican Guard. Please. Hey chief, nobody has killed 100,000 people. If this war has that many casualties, it will be because of Saddam Hussein, not the US. You sound a little mentally unstable, saying FUCK OFF etc, calling people names because they take a hard-line stance on the war ... that's the problem with a lot of you peace types .. you can't get your point accross without crying or causing a big scene. But at any rate, your point is still moot and you are still protesting a war that is already in progress. I just wanted to point that out to you. Peace and love.

A whole lot more people may die (including yourself and your family) if this war isn't fought. Death, as the honorable Trask pointed out, is an inevitable part of war and the society in which we find ourselves today. This discussion about war is as pointless as the peace protests going on right now ... by discussing all this, the war isn't going to stop, and therefore you're arguing a moot point whether you recognize this fact or not. Also by protesting, you are working to tarnish the image of your own country -- which makes you no better than France, Russia, Germany, and all the rest of the backstabbers who have tried to avoid their responsibilities. Instead of engaging in idle chit chat and annoying, pointless protests about what could have been .. stand up and actually do something to help your country! If you don't want to help your country (which it sounds like to me), put your money where your mouth is and help the people of Iraq by getting rid of the very government which has been suppressing and torturing them for many years. The war is on -- support your troops, and quit crying. Either that or move to Iraq where your support for their people, I'm sure, will be welcome with open arms by Saddam and his regime. How's that for a news flash?