j_b

After 30 years of conservative propaganda about the cost of hammers and toilet sits in government run programs to justify the privatisation of everything (including the military so that Halliburton can better rip off the taxpayer), suddenly the bottom line (how much does it cost) isn't a valid argument anymore. Insurance companies can't compete with medicare type programs so they and we should be protected from such a "socialist" evil. Is there is better evidence that right wing ideologues will say anyhting to get what they want (keep hanging from the taxpayer's teat).

we have already run out of money because we had to grease the paw of profiteers (we pay twice what we ought to for health care)

There are even more people who need access to health care and can't afford it. What we need is health care, not insurance. Cut out the parasites.

Well, it better change if we want to be a functional democracy.

As of March 2008, 59% of physicians supported a national health insurance program (publication in Annals of Internal Medicine) and it is bound to be more now with that we are even closer to the brink of a health care disaster. Elected democratic officials who oppose single payer should be targeted in their home state now so they know they will be held accountable.

From Senator Sanders:

Huh? wtf are you talking about PP? Newsweek isn't left wing if it's what you are insinuating. Obama's speech was smooth (per usual) but too vague to be meaningful. Anyway, it's not like his current policies give us reason to hope he is going to really change foreign policy: decrease soldiers in Iraq but increase mercenaries by 25% so far, favors a military solution in afghanistan/pakistan, unwavering support for Israel and its landgrabbing, yadda, yadda ... basically the rightwing playbook which ought to tell you something about Newsweek's silly characterisation of it.

Seattle Stairs Listing compiled by Doug Beyerlein, 1999 Outdoor public stairways with 100 or more stairs. Stair counting based on Beyerlein’s Rules for Counting Stairs (see separate document) DistrictNo. of StairsLocation Ballard272Golden Gardens Park #1 thru park at NW 85th St Ballard100Golden Gardens Park #2 north of RR underpass Beacon Hill158S Lucile St between 18th Ave S and 20th Ave S Beacon Hill120S Atlantic St between 16th Ave S and 15th Ave S Beacon Hill109S Hanford St between Cheasty Blvd S and 25th Ave S Capitol Hill293E Blaine St between Lakeview Blvd E and 10th Ave E Capitol Hill272E Howe St between Lakeview Blvd E and 10th Ave E Capitol Hill125E Thomas St between 26th Ave E and 25th Ave E Downtown151Pike St Hillclimb between Alaska Way and Pike Place Market Downtown104University St (The Harbor Steps) between Western Ave and 1st Ave Lake Washington218S Cooper St between Rainier Ave S and Water Ave S Lake Washington198S Day St (south side of I-90) between 36th Ave S and L Wash Blvd Lake Washington179S Holgate St (Colman Park) between L Wash Blvd and 31st Ave S Lake Washington179S Ferdinand St to 53rd Ave S between 55th Ave S and S Ferdinand St Lake Washington153S Dearborn St between 32nd Ave S and 30th Ave S Lake Washington139S Jackson St between Lake Shore Ave S and 35th Ave S Lake Washington138S Dose Terrace between L Washington Blvd and 34th Ave S Lake Washington106E James St between L Washington Blvd and 38th Ave E Lake Washington103S Redwing St between Rainier Ave S and Water Ave S Lake Washington10137th Ave E between Dorffel Dr E and E High Lane Magnolia202Magnolia Blvd Viewpoints #2 up bluff at W Glenmont Ln Magnolia154Magnolia Blvd Viewpoints #1 up bluff near Montavista Pl W Magnolia119W Dravus St between 36th Ave W and 37th Ave W Queen Anne Hill192Garfield St between Cascade Terrace Apts and 5th Ave N Queen Anne Hill182Galer St between 5th Ave N and 4th Ave N Queen Anne Hill138W Ruffner St between 14th Ave W and 13th Ave W Queen Anne Hill131Galer St between Aurora Ave N and 6th Ave N Queen Anne Hill125W Wheeler St between 15th Ave W and 13th Ave W Queen Anne Hill122W Barrett St between 15th Ave W and 14th Ave W Queen Anne Hill1213rd Ave N between Aloha St and Ward St Queen Anne Hill1112nd Ave N between Prospect St and Highland Dr Queen Anne Hill108W Lee St between 9th Ave W and 8th Ave W Queen Anne Hill107W Bertona St between 15th Ave W and 14th Ave W Queen Anne Hill105Dexter Ave Hillclimb from Westlake Ave N over ped bridge Rainier Valley180S Adam St between ? and 34th Ave S University215NE 52nd St between Ravenna Ave NE and 20th Ave NE University171Wahkiakum Lane (UW) from parking lot to Stevens Way University131Padelford Hall parking garage to Stevens Way University107Whatcom Lane (UW) from parking lot to Pend Oreille Rd University10722nd Ave E between E Blaine St and E Howe St -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- for more including West Seattle: http://www.nwrunner.com/files/test/Seattle%20Stairs%20Listing%201999.pdf

I don't understand why you should be denied access for several hours just because the rope is hanging. It seems that some of their leaders could learn to be flexible.

Leaving the rope in place makes sense if groups rotate between stations.

they form a commission to study the problem, all the while making sure the 12 essentials are at hand, and eventually send their recommendations to the chair.

This isn't my impression or my experience of Mutineer classes. If anything field leaders tend to stick to the book too much. The instruction programs constitute a very valuable service to the community.

what is it that you didn't understand, shit-for-brains?

I doubt that 2nd year students lead whole climbing classes very often if ever. The advantage of having a larger group is that experienced idividuals can be in charge without having to micromanage.

so, besides once more falsely claiming that I want to grant government the power to eliminate anything I disagree with where did you actually address what I said? Was the "address what I said" in question this comment: "...making sure that people aren't the captives of snake oil salesmen who create needs by manipulating people emotions." Or the one where you asked me to cite abridgments of civil liberties that had their genesis in times of conflict and war that were subsequently remedied when the crisis had passed. It's a worrisome tendency, but the track record shows that the country has recovered its bearings pretty quickly and has restored the civil liberties that were compromised. In other matters - ranging from the War on Drugs to agricultural subsidies - there's much less cause for optimism. You are conveniently citing only the policies/legacies of fearmongering that have been reversed and not considering those that haven't such as I have already mentioned. You can of course keep going on with your wordy monologues but until you consider what your interlocutor says repeatedly you aren't likely to discuss anything. You are the only person here who advocates protecting anything, which is the virtual monopoly of the corporate media on the national discourse and consequently, the "reality" of most americans. I am advocating allowing media on the public airvawes that account for all commmunication needs which are much broader than the commercial and political propaganda that perpetuates the interest of corporations. Note again that it doesn't involve curtailing anything but on the contrary involves increasing the diversity of communication.

so, besides once more falsely claiming that I want to grant government the power to eliminate anything I disagree with where did you actually address what I said?

But isn't that the foundation of our whole economic system? I think it is becoming the sole foundation of our economic system, but it doesn't have to be. Let the corporate media peddle its junk (within reason of course) but also enable a different media that will account for the entire communication needs in society (i.e. beyond the profit motive).

the world wide economy cratering, people losing jobs by the millions, pensions, homes is everyday realities? what a joke! what isn't permanent in the loss of civil liberties? the legacy of the red scare and its neutering of the opposition? the spying on peace groups? etc ... I think you are delusional. When it comes to liberties forfeited for the prospect of greater security, I'm specifically thinking of the Alien and Sedition Acts during the undeclared naval conflict with France in 1798, Lincoln suspending Habeus Corpus during the Civil War, The Espionage and Sedition Acts during WW1, Japanese internment during WWII, etc. All were remedied by an appeal to founding principles after the risks and/or the public perception of them waned. Yes, you clearly weren't thinking about policies both official and unofficial that have been around for a long time. BS. This is the quote you cited: "The story of the Western world since 1945 is that, invited to choose between freedom and government “security,” large numbers of people vote to dump freedom every time—the freedom to make their own decisions about health care, education, property rights, and eventually (as we already see in Europe, Canada, American campuses, and the disgusting U.N. Human Rights Council) what you’re permitted to say and think." it is true that it is broader debate but you applied this notion to government participation in GM and invoked the "nagging difficulties of every life" (paraphrase) to address the response to an economic and environmental crisis of catastrophic proportions. And again (what is it 3rd or 4th time I have to explain to you?) it isn't a question of "constraining the temptation to buy a given product" but of making sure that people aren't the captives of snake oil salesmen who create needs by manipulating people emotions.

the world wide economy cratering, people losing jobs by the millions, pensions, homes is everyday realities? what a joke! what isn't permanent in the loss of civil liberties? the legacy of the red scare and its neutering of the opposition? the spying on peace groups? etc ... I think you are delusional.

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/06/01-1

All this talk about not wanting to trade freedom for security must be the reason why JayB had nothing to say about 8 years of fear-mongering by the Bush administration to sell its wars OF terror.

Oh please, joe average didn't spend billions in commercial propaganda every year to manipulate americans and convince soccer moms they needed one of those to drive the kids to school. Comparing Moore to Limbaugh is moronic. Moore defended every single point he made in his docs with data. Limbaugh is a lying PoS.

Truly intelligent people know that castle of cards always collapse in due time. Some may take the unethical route and profit from it while the going is good knowing full well that someone has to end up holding the bag, but anyone who believed that rampant speculation and paper wealth were sustainable cannot be said to be intelligent.

You can repeat what I have already answered several times, it won't make it anymore true. The dynamics of this exchange encapsulate failry well most exchanges with JayB: never expect a specific answer to arguments put forward, always expect a repeat of what you already answered in your previous post.

Indeed someone has to pay and public employees may have to give up something during this crisis but they are hardly the source of the problem. A crisis manufactured by a widening of inequalities won't be fixed by leveling at the bottom for 99% of the public. Transfer pricing and other tax evasion schemes by corporations should be part of any plan that claims to address the issue.