Thinker

there have been a couple of times I've been able to put Kevin into a 'shifting' orbit that circles the planet(s) a number of times and eventually hits the target. Huge scores then!...and cool spirograph-like graphics.

I'm not sure this is always true. The last thing I'd want to see is for an individual going out to 'fix' what they perceive as a problem without a wider discussion with the local climbing community in general and some consensus. Certainly participating in this type of discussion, contributing resources (time AND money), and maintaining a health community are all important factors in this issue. But maybe an online forum (or at least THIS online forum) is not the place for this discussion. I suspect that such communities exist in most regions. I'd bet that route developers in the Leavenworth area, for example, let each other know if they see something that looks excessively bolted, squeezed in too close to another route, trivial, contrived, chipped, or anything else. Hopefully they complement each other on jobs well done, too. (note: both bolted and trad routes included in above commentary.) In my opinion, it's a shame that there's not at least one cc.com forum that is able to maintain an environment conducive to healthy discussions about the these issues. There ARE obviously some developers who post here, but there are also obvious and significant missing persons.

Alondro misses trask too: web page Date: 03/08/2003 From: ALONDRA Poem by Alondra written December 3, 2003 (the first and third stanzas were written by Mike.) ODE TO TRASK If the Lord God had sent me Then the witch would fall She'd be gone and I would be NOT inside this wall! But because I am an evil man, A sanctimonious prig, When Barnabas walled me up Everyone danced a jig. But all that dancing hurt his head And made him want to scream So he came back from the dead To haunt the dancer's dream. He wanted his revenge, So he took morter and brick He walled up Barnabas and hoped That would do the trick. But Josette's ghost saw him And let Julia and Willie know That Barnabas was in the wall To him they had to go. Willie removed all the bricks As Julia stood by Then Barnabas said with great relief "I thought I was gonna die!" This is the tale of what happened To one "Reverend" Trask. If you want more of my sorry poetry All you have to do is ask!" But no one in their right mind will! ROTFL!!!

I have a jacket made of Schoeller WB-400 that I wore bird hunting once this year. As luck would have it, I got stuck in a huge patch of blackberry brambles. The jacket got about 10 snags that I was kinda upset about. I streched and cut the snags and they've been fine since. I don't even notice them anymore.

What? Drilling on Mars? Have we already reached critical mass with the bolting that goes on here? That happened faster than I would have predicted. Mentioning Mars, maybe one of our long-haired readers could help this guy out: It looks like Pope is better connected that we thought: yahoo news "NASA last heard from Spirit as it prepared to continue its work examining its first rock, just a few yards from its lander. "

be aware that footbeds may change the way your boots fit....that was my experience. I bought Sole Orthotics, which slightly raised my feet in the boots, causing irritation to my heels. They also pushed my feet slightly forward, causing problems with the big toenails. Other than that, they feel great. My knees stopped hurting instantly. I think it's best to get the custom footbeds at the same time you get new boots to make sure they will work well together.

Maybe it's Minx...

practice makes perfect

I must be a little dense today. So what's the alternative to alternating if you're not considering clipping both pieces into one piece of gear? Would it be cliping the same rope to the pro 2 or 3 (or more) times in a row? That makes it sound like you're just trailing the 2nd rope at that point, given the non-wandering nature of the route you described in your initial post.

Yes. Some of it depends on the situation you're in, like everything else in climbing. My answer is certainly not comprehensive, but it's a start. Clipping both ropes into a single piece of gear increases the maximum force on the piece, but reduces the distance of the fall. So, unless you're risking a groundfall due to rope stretch, I'd only clip one at a time....unless you have a bomber piece to clip.

OK. There's one data point.

are chics or dudes?

what kind of boots?

and the illustrious Dryad!

cc.com pushing the limits of thinking.......

Richard Noggin raised a good question in this thread, something we talked about at Pub Club last week too. Does all the spray here at cc.com turn off climbers developing new rock routes? Are we missing out on opportunities to know about these routes because these folks get hammered every time they post? Any constructive ideas about how to warm them back up to this site? I sure hate to see the majority of PacNW climbers lose out on this info based on the actions of a few loud mouths.

Why limit it to Christianity? Religion (in general) and science are not incompatible....but what's that worth? Scientific theories can usually be tested and eventually proven, revised, or discarded. I'm not aware of any way to 'test' religious ideas. Why even compare the two?

The theory Gould helped develop is called 'punctuated equilibrium', in the event anyone wants to do further reading. His widely available essays are delightful if you have any science/geeky tendencies.

Scott, I think your view may be a little narrow. Of course there are cutting edge sciences where conflicting observations and conclusions are made. That's not all bad, though, because it let's the ordinary person know that there's still dissention among the leaders in the field. But consider what 'science' has done for your quality of life. Immunizations for childhood diseases and 3rd world plagues, improved climbing gear (polymers and alloys), microprocessors (and all the underlying technology) so you can spray and surf more quickly, therapy for many cancers, and protection from biological and chemical warfare agents...to name few. It's not ALL bad.

and Ehemic, too.

Classic case of nobody taking the lead to finalize details.

I'm all for that. Peace, my brother.

CBS, I did not divulge or post the content of your PM, only the fact that you sent me one. That's no more that what you've done in your post above by revealing that you and Trask have corresponded via PMs. It's clear that poking fun at the Mounties strikes a raw nerve in you and generates some .......interesting...... responses. But Mountie poking is a time honored tradition here, one that won't go away no matter how many times you try to point out how unjustified it is in your opinion. Do cc.comers lump all the branches of the Mountaineers together in one big stereotype? Sure they do! Are there differences? Probably. Is anyone here really going to listen to your points about the differences? I'm sure the few who are earnestly seeking to discover the differences can read between the lines and see the subtle differences. Is it wrong to lump the basic and intermediate classes together? Maybe, maybe not. I'm sure the overall philosophies regarding risk management and group dynamics are similar, if not the same. Most here probably don't make the distinction. After 5 pages of discussing the issue inside and out, with good points made on each side, I find it odd that you choose to get so bent out of shape now. My post above was clearly spray, and intended to be humorous. We all know how seriously you take this issue. So, if I pushed your buttons at the wrong time, I apologize. But get over it....it's just a bunch of words on the internet. If you really allow this to carry over into real life, i.e. calling names at pub club, you probably have some larger issues that need to be dealt with.

Some of it depends on where you're doing your sport...I eat Cliff bars in cold environments primarily because they are relatively low in moisture, and thus don't freeze. Ever try to eat a frozen Power Bar? It's frustrating. Cliff Bars don't have that problem. I, too, like the dried fruits and nuts, and probably eat more of those than bars. Trader Joes is THE place to get cool dried foods, IMHO. Jonathan (who posts here occasionally) turned me onto the fig bars and raspberry bars in the bulk section at The Ballard Market....marvelous.