Dennis_Harmon

Vantage sucks and the people who climb there because they lack the fortitude to go to the mountains and actually climb also suck. Don't you people from the Seattle megalopolis area have anything to climb over there? Have you people heard of the sport of scuba-diving? It's really "rad" because you get to buy a lot of expensive high-tech yuppie equipment and come home with "rad" stories of your exploits, but it's much more difficult to irreparably destroy the oceans. Dennis

I love to chop bolts. I think that I'd rather chop bolts than have sex with Britney Spears. I think that sport climbs and sport climbers are, like Hitler youth, a scurge on the earth, and that through the great effort and perseverance of many will ultimately be eradicated. Dennis

Good God, this guy asks for a referral to an orthopedic surgeon/climber and he gets all this B.S. Look up Bill Clark out of Tacoma and disregard all the other crap. Good luck, Dennis

Alpine K, You are the man. All this posting is getting me sad and I'm wondering if you'd be willing to take on an apprentice. Dennis

I owe Peter Puget an apology for calling him an ass hole last night. It was wrong, wrong, wrong... and there it is. Again, I'm sorry. I don't believe in personally attacking any one person on this forum, because I think that it's counter-productive to intelligent argument. That's all that this is about anyway... smart minds speaking to other smart minds. Dennis

Sorry, that last post was a joke but, do by all means look up an orthopedic named Bill Clark at some hospital in Tacoma. He's recently trained and good and a climber and a really good doc. That's who I'd go to. Dennis

me is Bill Clark and he is an real climber. This much I know is true because I have climbed with him up North Face of theksununtain in the USA state of Washington. He is good because he is so tall and so, so, so nice. Sinned

Pungent Peter is a complete asshole---Dennis

Dennis the Menace again and I'm still awaiting an answer from Peter Puget about what is so sporting about "sport" climbing and what you guys want to change the name to, in politically correct terms, of course. Dennis

At the risk of diverting you guys from personal attacks, and maybe to return the discussion to the subject at hand, I have a question for Mr. Puget. What in the world is so sporting about sport climbing when you don't give the mountain half a chance, i.e. kill, maim, or failure? It just seems to me akin to sportsmen/hunters who murder corn fed deer from a tree stance with a bazooka. Maybe you need another name for your "sport?" You might consider it. Dennis

Retro, You're nothing if not a flipping idiot, and not a very good one at that. Get the hell off this and check your PM. Just kidding, DH

By the way, Off White, I do go on the inter-idiot-net by my real name and, as you already know, I live in Wenatchee which shouldn't be too hard to find. (It's close to Leavenworth)Dennis

quote from JayB: "Most sport-climbers/gym-climbers that I know do care quite a bit about the environment and, by extentsion, the rocks themselves." "A bit," is about right. That must be why so many are rampantly and permanently altering a non-renewable resouce for ever other subsequent generation. You know, it may be that the world will not blow itself to hell, and I'd like my children the chance to experience some pristene areas not raped by the technological imperative and massive egos. Dennis

I, for one, call bull shit altogether Pungent Peter. Your lame asses have had enough access to our side of the state, and done enough damage that many over here are sick of it and ready to kick your dumb asses if you even show on this side of the range. Don't come over here with anything less than an apologetic attitude and leave your damned drills and bolts at home. Dennis

Yea slaphappy, Do you own a drill? If so come join the party. Maybe this'll turn out to be your climber's equivilent of the WTO riots... only this time the police won't be as nice. Dennis

I've recently been labelled in this forum as a conservative due to my stance on the rampant use of bolts. Therefore, I have a serious question. Were Rush Limbaugh to loose enough weight and move to the northwest and choose to learn to climb would he be doing some really kick-ass routes in the mountains, or sitting in his yuppie seat belaying somewhere at the base of the Sunshine Face. I'd really appreciate some feed-back from anyone about whether Rush Limbaugh would be a trad or a sport climber. Dennis

pope, You are definitely correct on that one. I'm going to drag Retro out with his new found pry bar and we're 'Going To Town' on some really stupid shit, and all you sport ass-holes beware. You'd better take time off from work to defend your "masterpieces" of yuppie craftmanship because we're sick of your bull shit and they're gonna get chopped (and filled.) Commit your drills to the abyss because it's a (Brave New) world out there and, unfortunatly, it's not yours. Also, you may want to bring baseball bats, because we're going to have them too. Good Luck, Dennis

eric, I didn't really discern a question there, but we'll try an answer anyway and then ask one of you, hopefully in a respectful and intelligible form. We old-farts have traditionally tried to minimize our impact on the rock thru pinning and bolting, hence the advent of the "clean climbing" ethic so espoused by guys like Yvon Chounard, Royal robbins, and others of the "trad generation." (God, but I hate that term... almost makes me embarrassed to write it.) There was a time when if a bolt couldn't be placed on lead then it didn't get placed, or you found some other means, or you deferred to the mountain and went elsewhere. But I guess ethics no longer count thanks to the fucking French, cordless drills, and an entire generation who don't give a shit about anyone but themselves. If your generation aspired to the same ethical standard of only bolting on the lead it would nip most of this horse shit in the bud and we wouldn't be having this discussion. There, I hope that answers your question. Now my turn... What do you consider "old" to be... 25? Dennis

daisy, I have to agree with you that it was an insensitive choice of metaphor, but it was the best I could come up with at the moment. If I offended you, or any other women, I apologize. Not to justify, but I wasn't the first to use it... could have been Y. Chounard or R. Robbins in their writings. Again, my apologies and I won't use it again. Dennis

Hey Dwayner, Great post guy! But I'm pessimistic enough about this issue that I don't believe that any intelligent dialogue is going to change anyone's ethics or behaviors out there. Check out the responses to my post under 'spray' if you want to see the average intelligence of these idiots. They're not going to stop or even slow it down. After all, Mommy and Daddy spent a lot of money on those drills and, by God, they're gonna use them. Dennis

Good God... why the heck do you call it "sport climbing" anyway when you're not giving the mountains even a remotely sporting chance to win, i.e. failure, injury, or death? It's akin to sportsmen/hunters who murder corn fed deer from tree stands with fucking bazookas. Takes big balls to do that. Dennis

Sport climbing, as they call it, is the rape of the mountains. Trad, however, (hell, we didn't even have a name for it then.. it was just called climbing) is akin to seduction. Either we get to have sex with the girl or we don't. Regardless, we walked away like like gentlemen and lived to climb another day. Please people, leave your damned cordless drills at home this season, at least for a couple outings, and try to learn something about the art of seduction. You may even find that the orgasims are better. Dennis

It doesn't really matter what I say at this point. Most real adventure has been lost in the mountains... and it has been lost due to the lack of ethics of those who go to the mountains who have no real appreciation for them. I've never been to Los Angeles... because I always thought that Los Angeles would come to me. Dennis

Retro, You should, and did, apologize to Allison. Differing opinions and the willingness to understand that many people out there are blatantly stupid is all that separates us from rabid beasts, which is what you are. Thanks for the back-up on the bolting question though. Frankly, I don't think anythings going to help, short of U.N. troops liberating drills from Gen-X morons in the middle of the night. Dennis

Do any of you people ever actually climb, or are you just pretending to be climbers? Not to disparage anyone, but I'm just wondering if any of you actually go climbing at any time? Dennis