RuMR

excuse me, but where exactly is this codified into law/morals/ethics?? This is simply YOUR opinion. So, what is your opinion on chipping then (aside from that my opinion on it doesn't matter to you)? i think it makes the rock cry....

Very much ego to say they were not nessasary. And to prove to someone else that they were not nessasary buy chopping them is all about your ego. " I dont need this bolt. I can run it out". Is all ego bro. Anyway you slice it. I simply define "not necessary" as the case when there natural protection is available at the same place where you would place a bolt. You seem to be describing cases where bolts that were necessary for the reasonable safety of the leader were chopped. But this is neither about runouts, nor ego. [u] Putting holes in the rock is inherently wrong, but a necessary evil.[/u] This is about not drilling holes in the rock unless 1) you have no other choice, 2) you have the support of the climbing community, and 3) it is legal. The chopping I would support is the recognotion of a mistake on one or more of these counts, which is different from the toughguy ego chop that you are talking about. excuse me, but where exactly is this codified into law/morals/ethics?? This is simply YOUR opinion...and you know what they say about opinions, don't you??

I heard you were joining The View to replace Rosie ??

that's right that you'd better fear my fat ass squashing you!

\ Forget your meds again, ecock?

duh... the comment was in response to muff's drivel about everything being gridbolted with bolts at their knees and hip and headlevel by people who've never climbed before... just cuz something is "bolted" doesn't mean its "overbolted"... oh yeah...fuck off... PS: hope you got your "fear" thing worked out...maybe you should visit Muff's local crag...

:LMAO: assworked just got worked...

Who gets to "declare" it a bolt free zone? in my opinion if you locate and area that has yet to be climbed than you are the grandaddy. you put the blood sweat and tears or sheer dumb luck into locating an area and starting something. i think it then becomes ethical to check with you before i make a drastic (bolt or otherwise) change to the area. it isn't about whether you purchased the area or not. it is about respect. it is also respectful to let you know if i found something i want to clean and that i want to work on, so you can let other people know that i am working that bit. it isn't about what is LEGAL or what CAN be done. anyone can do anything. it is about ethics and morals. my personal rights only go so far as they do not interfere with anyone else's personal rights. this reminds me of the thred in newbies about your friends route that got Ganked. I think that sucks. same goes for bolting in an area that most people agree shouldn't' be bolted because it protects so well. i think if you start a project you should be allowed to work on it or pick the person you want to work on it. is it really so vitaly important? Flagstone is always my example. It is a wonderful little crag, fun, out of the way, cool in summer. it has a ton of stiff climbing. the group of men(XOXOOXOXO love you guys) who started climbing there put up a bunch of really stiff routes becuase thats what they climbed. but there were some really well bolted easier routes too, but then someone showed up who didn't talk to them, didn't hang out with them didn't respect them and started squeezing routes in all over the place. then other people started squeezing in routes and now there are a bunch of shitty routes. on one wall when you lead you can literally clip at your knees, hips, head level and out an arms distance (for me and i am little) to routes on either side. it is so confusing i don't even know where to clip any more. one of the people who did all the bolting (hi dave yes i am still beating the same drum ) said he did it to make climbing accessible to everyone. I respect that, but i don't think new climbers are helped by facing such a massive route finding issue. I think it then becomes even more dangerous than it needs to be. we do not have an american climbing Czar. that means we have to find a way to work together in our own best interests. otherwise...the parks or forestry or someone will eventually take the decision making away from us and we wont get to pick and choose of have a say... and every rock in the US will be grid bolted by people who have never climbed before, because it will be a job like cleaning the port a potty in the national park. now i have heard everything...too many bolts makes it more dangerous? :lmao: hahahaha In Europe, the limestone is pretty much only bolt protected at the crags and you can fall a really really long way... I think it has more to do with the individuals placing the bolts than the bolts themselves...

#1: Leave no trace. #2: There are (almost) no bolts on alpine routes, nor should there be. Particularly at certain crags in the NW where many people climb to prepare for alpine routes, the practice routes should not be bolted except where unanimously deemed necessary (anchors, runout face). #3: YES, bolts can get in the way of climbing, even if you are not using them.#4: Last weekend I led a well-protectable crack at Red Wing, MN that looks to have been been retrobolted and chopped more than once. Because climbers must lead it on gear, they will realize that bolts are not necessary on any climb like it, and will not be tempted to bolt (or support the bolting of) any climb like it. That is a clear virtue of chopping where appropriate (as defined by reasonably safe to lead cleanly). gotta call bullshit on this one, assworked..."uh yeah, gee, i fell off that route cuz of the bolt.."...yeah, righto...NEXT also..."reasonably safe to lead cleanly" is ambiguous...what's reasonable?? that is the definition of an individual...ie Kevin recently whined about a 10 foot fall onto a slab as being "not safe"...everyone else jumped his shit about it...

i don't think mother nature gives a flying turd one way or the other about some studs in a piece of rock...

thats just a little treat my boy friend left me with... kinda salty but fun wow...that's a trick...your BF jizzes coffee cake/twinkie mixes???

the corner of your mouth, honey...you need to wipe it...

HA i had a break through yesterday. I am doing so much better. i didn't even WANT a donut on donut day today. didn't even hurt to turn it down. HA since you didn't want it, why did you scarf down the whole damn box, sista?? PS: Be sure to wipe the crumbs, errr incriminating evidence, off the corner of your mouth next time! :lmao: :l

BUMP... time to pick on the fat kids... what're you guys stuffin' into yo pieholes today?? Hmmm???

BD Whiz kid harness... for routes that have sideways action on them, i just take a shoulder length runner, tie it into an "8", stick his shoulders into and clip it off with a locker to the rope to prevent flip overs... my kid is pretty "body selfaware" though...he falls like a cat when he leads, so i don't know if he's standard...

for some of us that is easier said than doen. and yes you can lose wieght by quiting eating. for instance when i was 18 i wieghed 113 pounds as i had not eaten a decent meal in about 7 years. i was so thin my hair was starting to fall out and i had very little elasticity in my skin. i was essentaly starting to die. so then i had to learn TO EAT, as i had become very good at not eating. Meth helped part of the time. the rest of the time i mostly ate slatiens and drank water. some times i had cottage cheese. fast forward... when i start to get thin i really like it. i like so much i want to stop eating all together and that would be so much easier. SO MUCH EASIER, because then i wouldn't have to learn to stop at one oreo. i just wouldn't eat any at all. or anything else for that matter. i have used alot of drugs, i have been adicted to many things. nothing has made my life more blissful and horrible than food. so yes it is not rocket science, for me it is also not easy. I do not know when i am hungry or when i am full becuaes my body stopped telling me that a long time ago. it is not "Just" that i want to lose 10 pounds. i want to learn to eat in a healthy way and not smoke or starve myself. i started smoking at 11 when i started starving myself. now i am not smoking and i don't want to starv myself so i am TRYING to learn to eat in a healthy way. but it's kinda like telling a haroien adict to learn to use in a healthy way. thanks for the support and understanding Rudy where the hell were yer folks during all of this???? that is a big question that i am not sure anyone wants the answer to. i will answer it in PM if you like. what i will say here is that my mom was bulimic for several years just as i was hitting puberty. and until she hit late 40's or her 50's i had never known my mom to not be on some weird fad diet. no no...your business is yours...the question was rhetorical...an 11 year old should only be marginally responsible for their health...i say that because its the parents' duty to instill healthy living and habits into the child. otherwise, they've failed in their mission.

quit ruining my guilt trip on Rumr i weighed 210 about 10 years after i wighed 113. i gaind a whole person and then lost half of her.... still working on learning the whole healthy thing. i'm too insensitive to have a guilt trip...NEXT!

well, big frickin' duh that its about "time"...you should not drop more than a 1 to 1 1/2 lbs a week if you want it to be permanent...otherwise, its nothing more than a fad...

you call this healthy???? WTF??? You drink booze and eat a small amount of CRAP and this is healthy??? WTF?? Just eat a healthy meal and go for a run or a walk for 45 minutes...stay up a little later so you don't sandbag your project... WHAT HAS OUR SOCIETY COME TOO????? What you described is far from healthy...i'm sorry, but i gotta call bullshit...

for some of us that is easier said than doen. and yes you can lose wieght by quiting eating. for instance when i was 18 i wieghed 113 pounds as i had not eaten a decent meal in about 7 years. i was so thin my hair was starting to fall out and i had very little elasticity in my skin. i was essentaly starting to die. so then i had to learn TO EAT, as i had become very good at not eating. Meth helped part of the time. the rest of the time i mostly ate slatiens and drank water. some times i had cottage cheese. fast forward... when i start to get thin i really like it. i like so much i want to stop eating all together and that would be so much easier. SO MUCH EASIER, because then i wouldn't have to learn to stop at one oreo. i just wouldn't eat any at all. or anything else for that matter. i have used alot of drugs, i have been adicted to many things. nothing has made my life more blissful and horrible than food. so yes it is not rocket science, for me it is also not easy. I do not know when i am hungry or when i am full becuaes my body stopped telling me that a long time ago. it is not "Just" that i want to lose 10 pounds. i want to learn to eat in a healthy way and not smoke or starve myself. i started smoking at 11 when i started starving myself. now i am not smoking and i don't want to starv myself so i am TRYING to learn to eat in a healthy way. but it's kinda like telling a haroien adict to learn to use in a healthy way. thanks for the support and understanding Rudy where the hell were yer folks during all of this????

then drop the fuckin' oreo, man...just put it down nice and easy and back away all calm like...you can do it man, you can do it... sheesh...quit fuckin' eatin...it ain't rocket science...

catturdeat... He may have told you he was only climbing 10b (being a humble sort), but that wouldn't be any "10b" in your world... imagine just about any "10b" in the valley under any circumstances...go ahead, pick an ow, a slab, a knobfest, an R or an X or a splitter or a flare, maybe a loose one with pre1975 1/4" spinners...you're choice...now HIKE it after a ton of other pitches that day...that is what James meant...oh, and sieging some stupid exit 30-whatever route and figgering out the moves on a toprope isn't "climbing" 10b, now is it?? now, having said all that...what Jens said was correct and i figured something like this was gonna happen to one of that group sooner or later...

you fokkers should all be on oprah or dr. phil or some other wankfest support group!! :lmao: quit shoving food into your pieholes...

viagra is just wonderful, i tell you!!! better living through chemicals!

only when it gets "turned on"...