sexual_chocolate

I thought it was good in that it brings to attention a subject that sometimes gets fully forgotten about, namely, the mysteries of this friggin' universe we live in. Sure it's easy to pick apart cuz of its overly dramatic presentation, and yeah it was hokey in many ways, but overall, I liked it.

Yeah democracy is just so PESKY! Look at what the people will vote for , given the chance. South America was so much better off when the US propped up the likes of Pinochet and Somoza etal. You guys really show your true allegiance to the principles of democracy with your advocacy of a military overthrow of Chavez; hypocrites! (I suppose you are aware of your awkward position?)

Hey Matt, I was told Dave freed Narrow Arrow Direct, the one with a couple of bolts before an overhang. 12c is the grade I heard.

They've been trying to spin Chavez into a bad guy ever since he was democratically elected, going so far as to support the coup in the planning stages to offering support to the coup perpetrators after the short-lived Hugo ouster (how's that for the US supporting "democracy"?) It's nice to see the idiocy of our foreign policies so publicly exposed, and to see the perpetrators so publicly humiliated. Whether or not I support all of his actions and programs, I still must say "Bravo Hugo".

Before you get a lynch-mob together (catbirdseat etal), find out the whole story. The guy had mental probs and was institutionalized, last I heard. I especially like catbirdseat's advocacy for violence in solving problems; makes his effete outcries about the Iraqi war ring a bit hollow....

I'll put this one in my ammo box to you later. What a stupid statement, even if you made it in jest. I suppose this reaction is based on your assumption that I take a softer line towards the attrocities committed by "communists"? I think you might be mistaking the pointing finger with the moon (as the old saying goes.... ). You seem to disregard the message because the messengers are fucked up. Marx gave a pretty damn good analysis of capitalist function and consequence. Simply because we have Mao and Pol Pot and Stalin claiming the banner shouldn't be a reason for disregarding his thought. It'd be like blaming Nietzsche for Hitler perhaps. And I will further state that Marx's thought is much more grounded in humanitarian values than capitalism is; his thought was a direct reaction to the horrors of the capitalist model he saw (non)functioning around him during his day. I think he would agree that the condition of joe shmoe has improved, but only through a long worker's struggle (although that condition continues to deteriorate due to the corporatist business influence running this government today).

Why that was a rather succinct way to put it, Prole. And entirely accurate. Idealists are frustratingly...well...frustrating, whether their idealism is rooted in capitalist theory or communist theory. They've both killed countless people, but at least communists do it with a humanitarian goal!

Where is this climb exactly? Past the parking lot on the main road....

And Fairweather, you should read about the history of Minimum Wage laws. Perhaps you'd reconsider your statement.

Why yes I do believe that government (we the people) should provide free education to those desiring it! As a matter of fact we do, but then at college level, we stop. Hmmmm, and education is becoming increasingly expensive, less affordable by those in already impoverished conditions, furthering the cycle of poverty in an increasingly competitive society. Certainly the type of society we all desire, right? Compete with your neighbor for a slice of the (arbitrary) pie.... It's kinda funny. I read history, political theory, etc., and am continually struck by how the middle class can be so easily manipulated into supporting corporatist business agendas that do nothing but harm them in the end. Haven't you read about the shrinking middle class? The increased work hours? Decreased vacation time? It's a strange economic system that has developed, and it's even stranger how the very people being hurt by it can be manipulated into supporting it.

Reduce maximum wage? That is so un-free-market capitalism of you. I hope you don't call yourself an American.

Well then they shouldn't live here. Like Gary Yngve said, they're just spoiled. Nothing worse than a spoiled brat with a sub-standard skill-set who doesn't understand free-market principles. And Seattle is full of those, from what I hear.

And don't forget Hugo Chavez' and Castro's offers of help. I don't think Bush accepted?!?

Then you don't need government meddling with their misguided socialist programs like "minimum wage" and health-care and social security, because everyone will be able to take care of themselves, due to their expanded skill-set.

Hey I think you might be missing the point here. People speak of naiveties like "structural unemployment" and "strucural underemployment"; hah, what a load of crap. All you have to do is better your skill-set and get out there and get to work. Because I guarantee you that once everyone has the adequate training, education, etc., then EVERYONE will have a well-paying job. That's the way it works in a free-market system.

Oh and by the way: Props Tom on a cool new route! I'm psyched (and scared!) to get on it!

I am not a proponent of unfettered free-market capitalism as it is being practiced globally and locally by the powers that be. My above comments were (almost) entirely facetious. As to your question: Unemployment figures are a misleading indicator of quality of life. 0% unemployment would NOT necessarily be indicative of an optimal socio-economic condition (although it would be great propaganda for those benefitting most from the current "system").

Haven't been on it yet, but word is it's excellent and scary. The flare is supposedly hard to protect, hence the bolt. Why don't you whiners actually go climb something, and THEN comment? I get so sickened by the same 4 or 5 people dragging down every discussion with their incessant whining, when I know for a fact that they can't climb half the shit they bitch about. Yay internet: even self-righteous mediocrity gets a voice.

Who needs a minimum wage at all? In a free-market system, wage should be entirely determined by those with the jobs to give. Why should the government be stepping on the businessman's toes? I'm tired of paying my guys 7.60 an hour, when I know very well that they would work for 4.00 an hour because they need the work. Again, the government stepping in with their do-good liberal ideas, and taking money out of my pocket. I'm sick of it, as should be any freedom loving american. The free-market has proven itself capable of providing for the people, nay, the free-market has proven itself able to provide the LEVEL PLAYING FIELD so the people can take care of themselves!, so let's let it do its job.

If it's not too steep (less than 30 degrees), rapping down a static line anchored tightly at the bottom will keep you close enough to bolt. You can often find pin placements, hooks, or somesuch as temporary anchor points to hold you in enough to reach the rock. Anything steeper seems to me simply a pain in the ass. Sometimes you'll reach as far as you can and drive a temporary 1/4" from which you can then reach the permanent placement. Or a pin, or a toe-hook(!). Hard steep routes'll often have bolts a bit closer together, just so you can work the cruxes without having to bump up 20' after each failure (us sportos are into ease and convenience). I've heard of long horizontals (Maple Canyon) being bolted with the aid of a long 2 by 6; place your first bolt, attach 2 by 6, shimmy out 2 by 6, place next bolt, etc. pain in the ass still, from the sound of it.

Oh I don't know.... you might talk me into something.... out in Vantage maybe?

ok gotcha. That sounds just sucky to me. Yes RuMR, smite him.

Matt, I remember you taking the fall. It wasn't pleasant, it was scary, but you took it and you were ok.

And DCramer, if you're talking about Ben the Short, he's a hell of a climber. I don't know about any Fault claims he made (don't even know what the Fault is), but even if he did, cut him some slack: none of us are perfect, and I'm sure all of us have made some claims that were a little suspect (I once claimed to have climbed a route at the UW rock that I didn't; oh god I'm so sorry! Now the truth is known, and I feel better!).

Yea there's posturing here; it happens. We're all human animals, so it's really nothing more than I'd expect. Add a competitive results-based activity like climbing to the mix and yea you get a bunch of gorillas pretending to be more clever than they are. As far as SPM goes, you bring up really valid points, ones I didn't think of; my main point that I would still support is to maintain the original character of the route. Even if the original character was inadvertent! Sound silly? Maybe, but all of this is silly in the end, no? I think silly is good....