JayB

I think he's saying that the longer hanger creates a longer lever between the applied load and the shaft of the screw, which increases the force on the portion of the screw bearing the greatest portion of the load - which is probably 2-4 inches below the surface of the ice. As the load is applied to the screw, the longer lever arm concentrates force on this segment of the screw, which creates fractures in the ice near the surface, which ultimately shatters, weakens the placement still more. Once the surface ice is gone the lever effect is even greater, more ice shatters, and the screw fails. Probably why - in good ice - screws cranked in with a downward tilt relative to horizontal (hanger lower than the teeth) seemed to hold the best. Whereas, when you have a screw where the carabiner is essentially hooked right on the end of the screw, the lever effect is minimized, and the screw is consequently less prone to failure by the mechanism described above. At least that's my interpretation of what Neri is saying. Also - the threads on the Grivel screws are reversed, which is supposed to project the load into the interior of the ice, rather than towards the surface like conventional ice screws. At least that's the theory. Looking forward to some major techno-wankage on this thread. IMO - this is all neat stuff to talk about, but things like the quality of the ice that the screw is actually placed in are much more important than this stuff. That being said - Grivels have always been my favorite screws, though I suspect I am in the minority on that one.

Looks like the Talus hell is still in full effect....

I think Dru wrote the letter and put Don's name on it so that it would get published....

What'd you guys do?

5'10" and 170-175 depends on lifting or lack thereof, and the number of long approaches I've done in the past few weeks. I would only start to factor weight into placing pro, etc, if I was pushing 200lbs or so.

There's help for a great many of you available, for free, in Florida - of all places. "Florida Kerry supporters meet for group therapy Voters shout epithets at President Bush during first PEST counseling session Twenty John Kerry supporters met for their first group therapy session in South Florida Thursday, screaming epithets at President Bush as they shared their emotions with licensed mental health counselors. The first of several free noontime therapy sessions at the American Health Association in Boca Raton was designed to treat what mental health counselors have dubbed Post Election Selection Trauma (PEST). “If I had a cardboard cutout of President Bush, and these people wanted to throw darts at it, I would let them do it,” Robert J. Gordon, AHA executive director, told the Boca News after the session. “It’s no joke. People with PEST were traumatized by the election. If you even mention religion, their faces turn blister-red as they shout at Bush.” Although the meeting was closed to the press, AHA therapists obtained permission from participants to provide an anonymous transcript to the Boca Raton News. “I’m scared,” said one man. “Democracy is at stake and nobody is rising to protest this president.” “I want to be a patriot, but it’s impossible to be a patriot in an immoral war,” said another participant, a woman. “Bush is breaking up marriages and dividing families by keeping our troops in Iraq.” Gordon said the participants also granted reluctant permission to open up next Thursday’s meeting to the general press. Reporters will be forbidden from taking photographs or using the real names of patients. “The media outlets, especially Rush Limbaugh and his ilk on talk radio, scare our patients to death,” said Gordon, facilitator for the meetings. “More than anything else, people with PEST tremble physically.” Gordon said the Kerry supporters in therapy are predominantly Jewish and older than 50. Most are registered independents and all live in Palm Beach County. “We mostly let them vent during the first session,” Gordon said. “By the third session, we’ll be doing some meditation exercises to aid some of their symptoms. We may use visualization and some techniques designed for bipolar disease and other mental disorders. That might help them adjust to reality.” According to AHA officials, symptoms of PEST are similar to post-traumatic stress disorder. They include nightmares, sleeplessness, hostility, listlessness, and emotional outbursts including threats to leave the country. “There’s an overall sense of emotional helplessness and abandonment,” said Sheila Cooperman, a licensed AHA psychotherapist from Delray Beach. “In psychology, we call it ‘learned helplessness.’ After you zap a caged dog twice, he stops moving because he knows there is no place to go. That’s what happened with these Kerry voters. They’ve been zapped so many times that they’re on the verge of giving up on politics.” Cooperman, also a practicing psychic, added, “One person today said he thinks the country is now run by fascists. Another felt personally threatened by the president’s love for big business. Many believe Bush is going to draft their grandchildren. The anxiety may not affect them every day, but it affects their energy level.” An additional 30 people are signed up for two other AHA election support groups, which will meet for the remainder of the year and possibly beyond. Gordon said his patients’ emotional problems typically started with the “hanging chad” debacle of 2000. “First, they need to realize they’re not going to overturn the 2004 election,” Gordon said. “They have to live with it. The problem is they have no faith because they think the religious right has hijacked the political system. We try to tell them there is still an election in 2008. You can’t just give up and be apathetic.” The AHA, using a holistic approach to health that has been mocked as new age voodoo by some national talk show hosts, has stressed to patients that their post-election emotions are normal and deserve to be taken seriously. “These people talk about the 2000 election being stolen,” Gordon said. “They talk about Theresa LePore and the Ohio recount. They feel it’s the ‘Right House,’ not the White House. They feel the world is not safe with George W. Bush as president. They spewed out a lot of anger. They are angry at the Democratic Party for being aimless and leaderless. They have a right to these feelings.” The Boca Raton News first reported on Nov. 9 that depressed Florida Kerry supporters were seeking trauma therapy in the wake of the Nov. 2 presidential election. One Boca psychologist alone, Douglas Schooler, eventually treated 20 Kerry voters with intense hypnotherapy — for a sliding fee. The trauma specialist, whose bills were covered by clients’ insurance companies, was later accused by some colleagues of unethically “cashing in” on the misery of Kerry voters. In interviews with the Boca News, Schooler said many of the Kerry supporters had visited him for severe mental problems prior to the election. Unlike Schooler, the AHA is a registered Florida non-profit and its therapists do not charge for sessions. Conservative talk show hosts Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh recently offered their own “free therapy,” irking the AHA counselors." http://www.bocaratonnews.com/index.php?src=news&prid=10324&category=Local%20News

Ralph: Check out the Michelin Hydroedge or the Goodyear Assurance TripleTred. Lot's of reviews here: http://www.discount-tires-online.com/tire-ratings.htm

I live on Capitol Hill, but I will be riding my bike. Seriously though - everyone's friendly, and there are buses running from CH to the U District constantly.

Speaking of the ASCA - might be worth sending them an e-mail for their input.

Good job on calling Mr. Bertulius to speak with him directly.

You might also consider a synthetic if you are going to be doing much winter mountaineering around here - something like the Patagonia DAS or the Cloudveil Enclosure.

I would check the durability via other people's reviews on one of the tire review sites on the Yoko's before shelling out the cash. I would stay away from the KO's as they don't last as long, and from what I recall, lack the full depth siping that gives the other tires their improved grip on wet/icy roads.

Since we are drifting - anyone seen the new 05 Tacos? They added quite a few useful features but just killed the clearance. I was planning to put a new engine in my truck when the original engine dies (still going strong at 160,000 miles) anyway, but this more or less sealed the deal.

I think that one of the best all around tires is the Michelin LTX M/S. Great traction on all kinds of snow (new, compact, etc) due to reasonably deep tread (deep snow/mud) and the sipes cut into the tread surface (compact snow/ice/wet roads), and they handle wet conditions, mud, etc, very well also. They should also last 80-100K with proper care, which is awfully good for a tire with an aggressive tread pattern. The only downside is that they'll run you close to $800 for a set if you are getting 31x10.50's or anything close to that size, which is more or less standard for Tacos and 4 Runners.

Drury had a few chunks of ice clinging to the cliff below the main falls a couple of weeks ago. Hubba Hubba had some verglass going on, but I my guess would be that it's still got a ways to go - maybe late December if some more moisture rolls around. Nothing forming on the hillside across from Mountaineer Creek Road either as of 2 weeks ago - and not much in the way of moisture. Do your snow dance.

Two weeks ago you could drive to the mountaineers creek TH in a passenger vehicle, although it was snowing as we left. Aasgard pass was looking much like the shores of Colchuck - lots of talus covered by up to a foot of faceted snow lurking beneath a melt-freeze crust, with a few ribbons of water-ice tossed in the mix. If you are thinking about heading into the enchantments, SCTH has got to be the better option right now.

Where'd that happen? Be sure to check want adds, online stuff like craig's list, second hand gear stores, etc. Better yet - give all of the folks in the second hand distribution market a call with a description of your stuff. I had around $2K worth of camping and fly-fishing gear ripped off out of my truck in Easter Washington when I was 19. The killer was that just about every penny of that $2K was earned at the sub $5hour minimum wage bussing tables, delivering newspapers, etc. I've been paranoid about leaving gear in vehicles ever since.

Link To Thread in Access Issue Forum Just posting here to maximize the exposure. Take a look at the info that Uncle Tricky has posted in the thread and use it to your advantage. Call the congressional leadership and voice your opposition to this measure. Also - if you post on other outdoor related BBS, please cross-post, cut and paste, or whatever to get the message out before December 3 rolls around.

Link to Thread in Access Issues Forum Thanks to Uncle Tricky for bringing this to issue to everyone's attention. Please cross-post at rec.climbing, www.rockclimbing.com, www.telemarktips.com, www.boatertalk.com, etc. and most importantly - call the congressmen listed in the thread today.

We should get on the cross posting pronto - rec.climbing, etc, etc, etc in order to get the phone calls rolling. My advice would be call - don't write. Calls affect the staff in real-time, and they convey this to the congressmen/women that they report to pronto. E-mails can languish in inboxes for days without bothering anyone. A ringing phone is much more effective at getting their attention. My other advice would be don't bother preparing a speech - just call and deliver your message as effectively as possible in the time you've got.

"Our ascents get nominated for Piolet D'Or, I think we are doing pretty good job at this moment." Hell - you've got the west face of Gasherbrum IV from 20 years ago. I can think of anything that has bettered that effort since then. Anyhow - I still think Bertulius should be given the B.O.D. until he has a chance to respond. The discrepancy between the cash output (10,000 USD) and the monetary value of the prize (3,000CP) suggests that a misunderstanding of the facts (copies of the film were available for $60) than intentional malice was the root cause of the problem, for me anyway.

Sucks. I know tons of people who have done things quite a bit more foolish than this guy who have lived. Including myself...

The only place where snowshoers are consistently as fast or faster than skiers is in steep, heavily wooded terrain.

Doesn't this thing have to pass the Senate as well? That might allow time to contact Senators before the bill is written into law.

Bob: I'm glad that you and others drew attention to this situation so that the original film-maker gets the credits and the awards that are due to him for this effort. However - I don't think that someone like Alex Bertulius is out to cheat anyone here. He' been around the climbing world long enough to establish his character, and if he was the kind of guy who was into lying, cheating, and stealing I think those elements of his character would have revealed themselves long ago. AFAIK he's widely respected in the community, and has been for a long time, so perhaps everyone following the situation should give the guy the benefit of the doubt until he has a chance to respond. I can't imagine that Mr. Bertulius, being a rational fellow, would intentionally shell out $10,000 of his own cash so that he could win prize money that amounts to less than one-third of that total. It sounds to me like he made an honest - and in hindsight probably somewhat embarassing - mistake that could have been rather easily prevented by contacting the Polish Mountaineering Community. I think in the end both sides will benefit. Alex Bertulius will see his investment pay off in that a movie that he thought highly enough of to spend $10,000 restoring will get the worldwide audience that he obviously though it deserved, and the filmmaker will see a major upsurge in interest in this work, and any others that he may have made - and, in all likelihood - credit, recognition, and prizes from the BMFF . When there's a committee involved, things move slowly, so I think everyone should just chill out for a bit before letting the recriminations fly. On a somewhat related topic, Bob, I've seen you write elsewhere that you think that Polish climbers have historically received much less recognition than they deserve for their ascents (relative to other countries). Is this a true reflection of your feelings, and does this episode bother you in its own right or because its another example of Polish climbers getting the international shaft?