btowle

I have the TLT 700's. They have the climb/ski lever. I can't say that I really notice a lot of difference. The top two buckles have a catch where you can climb with them unbuckled and they don't flop around. I usually still buckle the middle one, just not tightly. This is the one thing that I would definately get fitted at a good store. I have hiked quite a few miles in mine without sore spots. I got them at the Mt. Shop in Portland. They will fit the heat-moldable liners for you and say that they will re-do them 3 or 4 times as they lose their shape.

I agree with Snoboy. The Scarpa boots seem to be made for really narrow feet. I can wear them, just need at least a size bigger. I had planned on getting Lasers but I ended up with Dynafit boots although they cost almost an additional $100. I have short wide feet. I have come to really like them. I climb way more time than ski, and they seem great for that.

Before I tell you my advice on this topic, you should know a couple of things: 1. I once only took 9 essentials on a day trip. 2. Once I climbed Mt. Adams south side route leaving my ice axe on my pack and just used hiking poles. Okay, now that you know that I am a real risk taker, take the following advice at your own risk. Use the ziplocks. The gallon size fits a 8.5x11 sheet of paper pretty well and you can fold larger ones and just flip the ziplock over to see the other side. You can leave them laying around the snow cave without worrying, store other stuff in them, and they cost very little. You can use them over and over. If you get a pin hole, you might get a 1/4" blur, but if you are going to die because you can't read one little spot on a map, well....Darwin had a theory about that.

They probably won't be necessary, but I usually carry them just in case they make it easier near the top. Usually can skin to the summit. Depends on how many people you want to pass and how much of a hurry you are in. I usually figure 5-5.5 hours for a trip without a lot of stops (only for sunscreen and pictures and something to munch on), but not breaking much of a sweat. No maybe about it.

Josh told me that he has already sold the skis.

I vote for kook too, but I wonder if he had skied dynafit bindings before. Since you were at the top, he may have been popping out of the toe piece on the way up if he didn't pull up on the touring lock tabs.

Measuring my TLT700's (Size 26) from pins to heel is about 292mm, and from toe to heel is 304mm. I am guessing that these are mounted for a larger foot than mine. Are your measurements from the front pins?

I have the ceres 50 that I use as a summit pack. I can look up with a helmet on and not have it hit the pack, it has a lot of places to stash stuff (crampons, shovel, ice axe, etc). This can be a problem while bushwacking though. I ski with it and find it really comfortable. The pack has three basic diameters depending on how you connect the straps that cross from one side to the other. Then you can fine tune to keep your gear spread out close to your back. You probably have to see this to understand.

I'll second the above comment about not scrimping on the down coat. When I went with RMI a few years ago, I had already climbed a bunch of volcano's and had everything on their list except the coat. It kind of pissed me off that they required that I have one, but I rented one from them. At the first break, our rope leader suggested that we get our coats out so that we wouldn't get chilled. I put it on and sat on my pack and thought "WOW". It was just like sitting on my couch in the living room. I had always taken a couple of fleeces and shell, but didn't like to stop long because of the cold breezes. I was so convinced that day, that I bought one. Now if you see someone sitting on a summit in a big-ass coat, it is probably me. It's the only thing I take to keep warm. Compresses well and doesn't weigh that much (even though it looks huge).

Looks about right....maybe a little short.

Climb: Mt. Adams ski trip-Aiken Lava Bed Date of Climb: 3/19/2004 Trip Report: Warning: This is not a climb, so don't read further if you don't like TR's that don't involve fear, danger or general suffering. Wait...we had plenty of suffering. We have seen the lava bed from the summit and from the Round the Mountain Trail. We have also wondered if a ski ascent up the flow would possible. This trip wasn't planned to be a climb, just a winter ski trip. The plan was to leave Friday morning and skin into South Butte on Mt. Adams from the southern snowparks, stay two days skiing and ski out on Monday. The USFS website showed that the Smith Butte snowpark was closed, so we had planned to leave from Snowking. We started seeing snow below 3000 feet on the drive in. Pineside snowpark was mostly bare, but maybe a third of the forest floor was snowcovered. The 8225 road (snowmobile route) from the snowpark was snowcovered however. We got to Snowking at 8:30am and could see that the road had been plowed up toward Smith Butte. Part way up however, a turnaround had been plowed out and a big pile of snow was blocking the road. The road was plowed farther, and we debated whether to park at the turnaround, and ski cross country, or go back to Snowking and ski up the roads. We decided on the latter and were ready to leave at 9:00 when a frontend loader went by to finish the plowing job. Smith Butte snowpark is open now. Snowking (3200 feet) has about a foot of snow covering half to 3/4 of the forest floor, but the route we traveled was all snow covered. We skinned up right from the snowpark, but there is a lot of debris on the roads. The trip from Snowking to the nose of the flow is all on road. Most of the road is on groomed x-country route and some is on packed snowmobile route. About a mile of the 3.5 miles or so is unpacked road. We had decided to bring a sled. We usually only use one on trips of 4 days or more and really debated whether to take one up the flow. The Snipes Mountain trail takes off of the road right at the nose of the flow and starts up the east edge. A snowmobile had gone up the trail, so we decided to follow it until we could find a way onto the flow. Warning: Don't be in a hurry to get out of the forest. We really wanted to because of the debris layer on the snow, but the travel was really pretty good. Looking at the flow it seems like it should be better up there. I had hoped that there would be an area between the flow and the edge of the forest that we could easily ski. It doesn't exist. You are on the flow or in the forest. Anyway the snowmobile eventually turned around and we found a steep gully we could get up. Well, we could skin up it with our packs, but not the sled. Made another trip up with the sled postholing in hip deep snow. Warning: Stay in the forest until between 4500 and 5000 feet. Below that the flow is large gullies, large trees and large rocks. One step which is 150 to 200 feet in elevation is particularly difficult. Again the sled required a return trip. We had hoped to climb to South Butte. After crossing the lower mile of the flow, which took us over 2 hours, we realized that probably wasn't going to happen. After 5000 feet the travel gets a lot better. The higher you get the easier it is. We set up our camp just below the Round the Mountain trail on an outcropping in the flow so that we would still have a nice view of the mountain unobstructed by South Butte and the Lunch Counter. The next couple of days, we skinned up under South Butte and then skied the bowls. The flow is really too flat to ski. We generally skied between 5500 and 8000 feet. A lot of windblown rocks were exposed above that around South Butte on the ridges and the gullies. Partner was wearing Scarpa T3's with Riva bindings that require that the heel cable be in place to keep the boots in the bindings. I knew that he was traveling slower than I was which is usually a bad sign. On the second night, he pulled off his socks in the tent to display a horrible mess of red, raw flesh. I guess that this all happened on the way in. I think that the bindings pull just enough that after 8 miles, most of the skin was gone. No complaints from him though. He just started wearing two pairs of socks and kept skiing. After our suffering on the way in, we were determined to be off of the flow by 4500 feet. Didn't happen. We got to a long steep hill that we could have skied without the sled. With the sled, we tried to find a better route. We should have just taken the skis off and booted it down the hill, but instead skied west to get down. Now we found that we had several steep (corniced) gullies between us and the east edge of the flow. We followed snowmobile tracks for a while and to our dismay found ourselves in the same steep narrow canyons that we suffered through on the way in. Now the snow had melted on the lower end of the flow so much that it was impossible to manuver through them on skis and with a sled. So I put the skis on the sled and we tried to get off of the flow. Every 20-30 feet I would collapse through the level looking snow up to my chest. The only thing holding me up being my pack and sled poles. Partner was leading (on skis) and came back without his pack. He said that he left it at the bottom of the east edge of the flow and had come back to help me with the sled. When we got to the edge I saw that he had just flung it over the edge in a desperate attempt to get off this thing. We had a 50 foot drop with mini-crevases caused by snow being held up by buried rock cliff. Another 20 minute epic of misery got us to the bottom and forest floor right at the south end of the flow. The warm weather had melted a couple of patches of bare road by this time. This route should be done from Smith Butte now. There is still a couple of feet of snow there. Made it home for dinner on Monday. Partner just put shoes on for the first time today (two days later). We never thought that it would be easy though, and even with raw feet had a great time!! Gear Notes: Don't take a sled on the south 1.5 miles of the flow. The higher part is fine. Approach Notes: Smith Butte snowpark is open. Still a long approach to Adams. Snowking approach to the flow is not bad, being all on road. Smith Butte would be less elevation gain and closer but some cross country. Snow is quite debris covered. I wouldn't have a problem with this route after fresh snow and without a sled.

That's one of the interesting things about this trip. We took a sled. 4 days is kind of our cutoff for a sled and we really debated about taking one up the lava flow. I really hate them too, but from 4 days on, you can live in more comfort. Anyway, I'll post a TR tonight.

We skied in from Snow King snowpark last Friday and camped up near the Round the Mountain Trail below South Butte. Snow King is at about 3200 ft and the ground was 50% covered with a foot of snow. The roads that were packed by snowmobiles or groomers were completely covered from the snowpark. The snowmobile trail from Pineside snowpark still has snow cover from below 3000 feet up to the Aiken Lava flow. Just a short bare spot before you get to the snowpark. So plan on snow from 3000 feet up. At 6000 feet I used a probe in the lava flow and seemed to get around 4' of snow. It is tricky in the flow because of the variability of rock, but that is pretty close I think. Anyway, we weren't in there to climb this time, just did some camping and skiing in the bowls below South Butte. I could do a TR if anyone is interested, but it really doesn't have much to do with climbing. It would have some interesting route information for anyone's future plans to go up the lava flow.

Thanks. We are planning to go this next Friday thru Monday. I was sure that I had seen a report somewhere of someone skiing the flow. Looking at it in summer, I wasn't sure if all of those rocks would be snow covered or not. We were planning to go just to timberline or South Butte. Climbing isn't our first priority this trip, but we will see what happens.

Has anyone here ever skied up to timberline on the Aiken Lava flow which generally runs from the Smith Butte Snow Park (apparently closed this year) to the Lunch Counter? Can this be skied on a normal snow year or do you need a lot of snow to cover the rocks?

Two rigs with trailers had pulled over and let me pass that morning. I drove around the upper lot and could see that it was almost full. It seemed pretty rude to take one of the last spots after they were nice enough to let me pass. If the upper lot has plenty of room, I will always use it. If not I am willing to walk a little farther. Although a couple of years ago we were x-country skiing back down the 83 road from the Lahar and probably one in five snowmobiles would pass us, cut in front and then gun the machine, throwing snow on us.

While I'm not sure that it is a rule that only snowmobiler's can park in the upper lot, I don't really have a problem with it. Right now, a vehicle with a trailer can't park in the lower lot. That leaves it open for climbers, skiers, and hikers. Say you are climbing St. Helens. What is it, 11 mile round trip and 5300 feet elevation change both ways? The distance from the lower lot to the trailhead is another 150 yds. and 50 feet in elevation . The alternative may be that if single cars take most of the upper lot, they may allow trailers in the lower one. Right now we have an almost empty lot all to ourselves. I will agree that it would make have made more sense to have built a larger lot below for all of the trailers and that the lower lot is probably to narrow for trailers to turn around easily.

Silver Star gets a lot of wind action. The result is some deep snow and then none. Son went up with telemark gear (see St. Helens thread) a couple of weeks ago and said that there was a foot of snow at the trailhead (south) but on top a lot of small trees and brush were sticking out of the snow. He didn't go past Silver Star so the north side may be better. He met another skier up that was having the same problem. It takes a lot of snow to have good conditions and then the approach is really long.

We were probably the beginning telemark skiers. Did you guys pass us as we were resting near the "permit required above this point" sign in the soup? Yeah, that is usually what we do: "Lets try telemark skiing" "okay, I think St. Helens would be fun" Anyway going up was good. We left at 8:00 and got to the summit with everyone else at a little after 1:00. That was one long half day (the going down half). The snow was over pole length deep, so getting back up after a fall was really tiring. We did have a great time figuring out that we either need lessons or to lock our heels.

It's kind of amusing with all of the chestbeating that goes on here, that people can't walk another 1/4 mile if they really don't want to pay the fee. Don't park at the nice trailhead. Drive to the trailhead, drop your stuff off and park down the road. The forest is still free, just not the trailhead.. As far as vandalism. After my second day of economics, I figured out who pays for this stuff. (Hint: They can print money) Soon the fee will be $50 to pay for all of the signs.

Not if you can comfortably carry it and you sleep better. I may just need more "natural" padding. I am not in any way considered "overweight". The old blue pad I used for years used to wake me up every 30 minutes or so with an arm or leg or hip "asleep". With the thermarest it is more like every 2-3 hours. Worth the weight to me.

I have the guidelite. Maybe it is because I am older, but I am willing to carry a lot of crap to stay comfortable. For snow/ice I always also carry a closed cell pad also, just in case my crampon/skipole/knife/etc puts a hole in the air pad.

Lets just admit that in nice conditions, the South Side Route is really just a hike. If you want to say you did the South Side Route and be honest, then you should really do the whole hike or say "from the top of the Palmer". Just like any other hike from the trailhead. For other routes, take the cat and don't mention it. You are not there for the hike anyway. The other amusing thing that I noticed last friday was the number of packs strewn along the trail from Crater Rock to the Hogsback by people who apparently got tired of dealing with them.

No joke! In fact on Friday night / Saturday morning I think more took the cat than hiked. A lot of the cat riders would have a problem getting to the top otherwise I think. I started hiking from the parking lot at 10:30 to try to beat the masses. I caught the 11:00 snow cat riders at the hogsback and sat on the summit for 40 minutes alone (one other lone hiker was with me for the last 10 minutes) before they arrived. I wasn't speed climbing either. The first snowcat riders that left at 11:00 didn't summit until about 5:30am.

The Mounties DO teach that, but do the newbies listen? Nooooo! The dumb ones have to learn the hard way. A few weeks ago, I was on the rim of Mt. St. Helens when a group of Mounties (according to one of them) arrived. The leader was quite loud, barking orders and info: "Don't go over there!!" "Everyone sit over here!!!" "We are leaving in 5 minutes because the weather is turning!!" (Actually this was true). And finally: "We have to leave, I'm freezing my ass off!!" Pretty much everyone in the group was wearing nylon pants, jackets, ordinary stuff. What was the leader wearing?? Shorts over polypro!! Nice cold breeze up there. He was probably quite comfortable while hiking, but when you stop the cold will get to you unless you have another layer. It didn't look like he did. Everyone else looked like they were quite comfortable and having a good time.