btowle

That's right! I don't know what I was thinking. That's what the full coverage insurance that they will pressure into buying is for. Just drive through the trees around the snow drift.

Since then it has snowed. The last update on the USFS web site shows Pineside snowpark (elev = 2700) to have 12" snow. Smith Butte (elev = 3900) to have 40". This was as of March 7. I haven't been to these, but I went out yesterday with nordic skiis to some snowparks west of Adams and the snow was about the same as the last posted date. I would assume you will be skiing in from about 3500 in mid April. It only takes one 3' x 30' drift to stop your rental car and in my experience there is always one a mile or so before where you could have driven otherwise .

Well, first I haven't climbed it this time of year. I would think the approach would be quite long. I did it last summer and I think the approach from Killen Creek was 4.5 miles or so. There was no snow on the route except from the top of the Adams Glacier at that time. The crux is at the bottom around 9000-9500 feet if my memory serves me. There is a place where the ridge has slide down onto the Adams. In Becky's book, he notes to stay climbers right. When we were heading up, we got to the first gendarme and stayed right feeling proud of ourselves. Then we followed the obvious ascent path to the left where the slide was. Wrong! This is the area that he was talking about. We ended up backtracking and climbing over the ridge rather then trying to go along the top of the slide area. Then it is smooth climbing to the summit.

Concerning fees: Don't forget that at Mt. St. Helens after May 15 you can ride a snowmobile to the summit for free, but if you climb, you have (are supposed) to pay.

I don't think that the Park Service really cares that much that the climbers get the lowest cost climb. I suspect that there are probably advantages to them when they only have to deal with one guide service (for the most part). The idea of one main guide service would allow a company to hire and keep higher quality guides. And give RMI credit for the people that they can get to the top of that mountain. I know that RMI has sent assistant guides out with shovels to dress up the "trail" to the top that everyone else uses. I suspect that there are other little things that they agree to do to keep up their end of the bargin. They also keep their crowds to the DC route and generally leave the other routes to the rest of the climbers. I'm not saying that other guide services shouldn't get more days, just that the way it is probably makes sense for the Park Service. I would probably do the same thing. Find a service that you trust and give them the consession as long as they hold up their end of the agreement and safely (as possible) get clients to the top. Up until last year at least, I believe they took two groups of 12 most days (plus 3 guides per group).

quote: What do you think the Cliff Bar "Ice" series is? The Cliff "Mojo" bar blurs the line even more. Ice series? Better but still chalk. I want gooey fat. I haven't tried the Mojo stuff. I see others have suggested that there may be stuff out there that might be what I am looking for. So far the Power Bar, Clif Bar, Gu, Luna stuff isn't it. I want chocolate, nuts, sweet gooey stuff, vitamins, minerals. Protein? Add more nuts. I generally use this stuff when I want something light, but nourishing. 1000 cal's? Great!! Lots of fat? Even better!! Maybe mayo on a snickers bar!! I will try some the above suggestions.

quote: skip them and just take a multivitamin once a day? I think that the first person to make a Snickers Bar with vitamins and minerals plus some other good unflavored additives will be the next billionaire. Really, how many of us worry about our weight at times that we are eating this stuff. A lot of fat? Mmmmmmmm. When I am cold and tired, eating one of these commercial things is like trying to swallow a mouthfull of worms (I would think )

To find snow depth info in Oregon (Washington too), go here: http://www.or.nrcs.usda.gov/snow/snowsurveys/or_datamap.html You can get weather data (including snow depth) listed every 6 hours. Also historic data in case you are planning a trip to an area that you aren't familiar with. I grew up in TG's area so monitor the Moss Springs Snotel site since we go over an ski in.

South Sister has one of the best views in Oregon. Impressive line of volcanos running north. Middle Sister from Obsidian trailhead is a good day's hike. Smoot's book says 4-6 hours and we usually climb these at the lower end of the time scale (depending on weather), but we barely got there in 6 hours. We did get off route and ended up at the south edge of N. Sister. Then climbed through some huge rock piles in the saddle for 45 minutes to get back. Should have stayed on snow. The advantage is fewer people on M. Sister. Although maybe not that many people going up either this late.

Old Snowy is a big pile of rocks with a trail up one side. We had planned to camp at the west base of it, so dropped our packs and just climbed up the rock (mostly 1-3' dia rocks as I remember) slope to the top. Then walked down the trail. No big deal. When I was there a year ago, there were people everywhere. Don't expect a wilderness experience unless you are willing to camp on the east side (steep snow if I remember).

Went up the North Cleaver last weekend. Really rocky . There was a least one team heading up the Adams the day after we left. We had no snow until the summit cap. Lots of rockfall on the Lava glacier down the headwall. Dust hanging in the air for a long time. FS website says that the Adams is still in shape. Looks like if you start right and then angle left there is a line on the Adams. But this was at a distance. Just saw the top up close. Everyone else that I saw (maybe 12 people including us) was doing the North Cleaver.

Well, one guy bought some equipment on ebay and then drove up the Toutle River to jump off of the Hofstadt (sp?) Bridge. It is fairly high. Apparently on the way he stopped at another bridge over the Toutle and decided to try it first. It is only about 100 feet high. Apparently the his parachute didn't really slow him down. Pretty beat up according to the news report.

The USFS info here is out of date. You could drive to Cold Springs last weekend. You can't get into the main parking area, but you can drive to the trailhead. People were parking in every conceivable(and some that were not) spot. First couple of miles is mostly dirt (to maybe 5900 elev). Then mostly snow until about the Lunch Counter where there are rock bands to cross.

quote: I listen to Pink Floyd and the Grateful Dead. I don't do drugs but I like to drink. Michael, You have more in common with our generation than you think.

Dennis, I am actually a couple of years older than you. I was wondering if you may have grown up in a small rural town. I did, and I know that I had a skewed vision of our generation while I was growing up. Growing up, everyone that I knew was pretty much just like me. We all were pretty conservative and did "outdoors" stuff. I saw "hippies" on the news, but I really didn't see people like that in my everyday life. But, as I look back, I really think that our generation was at least a screwed up as this one and probably a lot more so. It turns out that while I thought that I was just like most of my generation, I was really just like a small percentage. I will probably get blasted for this, but I think that it isn't so much the generation that you came from, but the environment. In other words, I think that people that spent their whole lives in the "City" with all of societies services may have a skewed vision of life. The people that I grew up with knew that sometimes bad things happen and it isn't anyone's fault. It is just life. No one was going to take care of us if we didn't. "City" folk seem to think that if something bad happens to them, it must be because of someone else. (I know, a really broad generalization). Now to tie this back to your view of the younger generation, I think that the aspects of people that you are talking about have nothing to do with which generation they are from. It is our society in general becoming more selfish and more of the average society doing "extreme sports" like climbing. Well, know I have even confused myself...back to the rocking chair on the porch. Appologies to all of you conservative, hard climbing, "take care of yourself" "city folk".

quote: I read in the Kinsey Report that over 20% of rural males and 5% of rural females reported that their first sexual experience was with an animal whereas only 2% and 0% of urban males and females so indicated. If you include watching artificial insemination or watching the real thing , I might tend to agree.

I generally just lurk here and watch the discussions. Over time, I have witnessed some pretty interesting personalities. For me, if I am on a 4 person rope team, I had better really like the other 3 or be going someplace high on my priority list. Someone is always pulling the rope, wanting to stop, wanting me to talk to them, etc. If you had the chance to watch a 4 person rope team made up of cc.com regulars, who would you tie together and in what order would you place them as the most entertaining.

When I was pondering this topic, I couldn't decide who to put on the anchor. Dru, so that he could more easily supply words of wisdom to the other climbers. Or Cpt. Caveman who could just stop climbing every 10 feet and let everyone hit the end of their rope while .

I guess that I have the dubious distinction of having to self arrest on the Hogsback a few years ago. The conditions were clouds below 7000 and clear above. The snow was covered by 3" of very hard ice. Not smooth like a skating rink, but lots of fist sized smooth bulges. If you climb much, I am sure you know what I'm talking about. Seven people summitted that day as far as I know. A single person and 3 parties of 2. We were the last to leave the summit. I was with my son who was about 16 at the time, and although we didn't rope up to summit, we decided to do so on the descent. The thought of him sliding down the hogsback wasn't very appealing. He was ahead of me by half a rope length and about the time I got 30 feet below the pearly gates, one of the ice bulges broke off as I stepped on it. Then it was gore-tex on ice. Really, this slope isn't all that steep and while I couldn't instantly stop, I never got going that fast. My ice axe just raked over the surface. I did stop myself about the time I got to my son, but didn't set my crampon front points before trying to set my ice axe by hitting the ice with all the force that I could muster from a prone position. The axe just glanced off and I took off down the hill again. Again, I was almost stopped by self arrest, when I came to the end of the rope. My point is, that it is possible to self arrest on ice on this slope. I don't know the conditions, so maybe they were worse than my experience and certainly when the first two teams collided, everything would be much harder. No way is it anywhere near 65 degrees.

The south side route has been closed: http://www.fs.fed.us/r6/mthood/cfr_closure.htm

See www.kgw.com for current info.