slothrop

No, kitty, don't sit there!

Grrr, explain yourself.

Aw yeah.

Um, why is the REI thread closed?

Sheeit, nice work, jon. I think I'm going to start a thread on how much a new set of Friends and twin ropes and a rack of Express screws really really suck. I actually had question relevant to the REI thread: one poster said that you can special order anything and it's dividendable, while another said that you can special order, but it's not dividendable and you have to pay a $25 fee for the special order. What's the scoop, yo? Jules?

REI's climbing gear section would be greatly improved if they had competent people working there. Not some of the time, but all of the time. A simple example: I went looking for cord to sling a hex with and no one could help me. The fella who was there didn't know what Gemini was and didn't know what to recommend instead. I had just come from Feathered Friends, who were all out of the techie 5mm cord I needed, but could talk with me at length about what the right stuff to use was. If I'm buying gear from someone, I expect them to know as much or more about it than I do.

Yup, it looked like there was some thin ice over the lower left section of the slab, below the first trees. Above that and on the far right side of the slab, it was all snow. We backed off because we didn't want to trigger a slab on the snow slope or the gully. The route was probably over our heads, anyway. We had only gotten a short bit up the snow slope, didn't get too close a look at the ice. There are some photos here.

Woke up at 4am Sunday and headed out to Alpental to check out the NE Slab of the Tooth. Got to Great Scott Bowl after snowshoeing through heavy snow in Source Lake Basin and dug a pit in the steepening snow below the east face. There was a 3-inch slab that slid very easily on a thin sugary layer, and the next foot and a half of the rutschblock disintegrated with one stomp. "Better safe than dead", so we turned around, chatting with some guys setting up for the ski rally. The route looked very snowy, with what looked like lots of ice to the left of the head of the rightmost snow gully. Disappointed, but hungerin' for something to climb, we hiked back down to some short ice flows just south and above Source Lake. Not comfortable leading up a thick detached overhanging blue icicle, we tried to set up a top rope for another flow to the right. Descending a gully that turned into a cliff, I set up an anchor as a bird watched me from two feet away on the tree I was braced against. Like true bumblies, we rapped down the wrong gully. Bouldering on the cliff below, I fell and landed on my crampons Contemplating other ways to screw up, we looked over at the ice we intended to top rope and my partner suggested I lead it. Cool, no problem, my first lead on ice will be a 15-foot pair of steps ending in a walk-off along a rock ledge. I placed four screws in 15 feet and the third one unclipped itself I placed the fourth with one arm stuck up to the elbow in the space behind the ice, axe jammed against a thin rock flake. As Steve cleaned the "pitch", he tossed down the biner that had unclipped itself. It landed on the piled rope and clipped itself in The ice was rotten, about 3 inches away from the rock, and rotten. We were entertained by the sounds of the racers being cheered on, a huge group of ski patrollers tearing up the glop, and the briefest glimpses of sunshine. All in all, a fun day.

Naw, they can just use a girth hitch to tie in.

quote: Originally posted by IceIceBaby: Eric,That was hypothetical situation But the question remainsBD makes the claims that the gear will work under these kinds of conditions I have been proven wrong under much milder conditions Where is the quality that has been advertised and if there were stricter controls, this would not happen Nope, wrong on that one, too. BD advertises their Dry Tool gloves (http://www.bdel.com/compare/gloves.html) to be rated for use down to 28 degrees F, 68 degrees higher than the 40-below conditions you speculate on in your "hypothetical situation". If you're only wearing Dry Tool gloves at -40, you're asking for frostbite, whether the glove rips or not. I find it quite helpful for BD to advertise the performance range of their gloves. However, I am a thinking person like most of us here, so I know that a temperature written on a chart can't possibly mean that there is no way anyone who wears the gloves can get frostbite unless the temp drops below the rating. I also know that gear (and all things) can break, regardless of quality controls. Anyone whose job involves making things and testing them knows that. If "your mileage may vary" is not part of your belief system when dealing with gear, you are going to have a very hard time dealing with reality. As evidenced by your incoherent rant.

Wow! Look at Dru have a spray contest with his own avatars!

quote: Originally posted by Beck: Prison labor is a bad trend in America- the largest office furniture manufacturer in America was forced into bankruptcy by Michigan prison labor producing same type of furniture. There the prison system itself is the manufacuturer of all sorts of products and the prisioners get the 75 cents or buck fifty an hour. I understand market trends drive industry and understand how cutting costs increases the bottom line and can help keep costs down-but, essentially, any manufacturer who's using prison labor makes the decision to employ convicted felons instead of hardworking law abiding citizens to save some bucks, taking jobs away from average joes and having rapists and child molesters work for them. That pisses me off! Same with the Bush administration plan to make it easier for illegal immigrants to work here. WTF? Why? Oh, I'm NOT pro union, I own things made in China and I have OP gear. The world's not a perfect place. It's not that bad in places where the prisoners are required (by state law) to be paid wages equal to the industry standard. In Washington, they get paid industry standard or minimum wage, whichever is higher. I'm guessing that the real sick thugs are not the ones in prison work programs, either. Joe Law-abiding Citizen is not necessarily a harder worker, either... would you work harder if the prize for doing so was getting out of prison early, or if the prize was yet another piece of stereo equipment (or even a nice new set of ice tools)? Eh, I'm just speculating, whatever. [ 03-21-2002: Message edited by: slothrop ]

quote: Originally posted by bobinc: Yes.... maybe, finally, cc.com is THE PLACE where all grammar and spelling errors will be magically repaired. That's one of the worst parts of internet culture: learning about the generally piss-poor mechanics of all of us who seem to ahve the time to post on these boards. Bwahahahaha! [ 03-21-2002: Message edited by: slothrop ]

They seem to be available directly from OP... I can add one to my shopping cart on the site.

I thought I'd move the more technical part of the OP discussion here... may the other thread spray on It looks like the fancy new Doval biners are not CE certified (there's no mention of it here: http://www.omegapac.com/product.asp?id=573). Are they so new that there just hasn't been time to send them in for official testing? What exactly is entailed in CE certification that the manufacturer wouldn't do itself? I don't think I'd buy 'em just yet. [ 03-21-2002: Message edited by: slothrop ]

Yeah, what's up with that warning about Tenaya Canyon? Why do the rangers want you to stay out?

Why would you want to hold your axe with the pick forward for self-belay, anyway? If things are spooky enough that you're having to self-belay, isn't that all the more reason to be ready to whip out the self-arrest quickly?

I got some comfy Gramicci pants, padded bike gloves, and a Windstopper jacket, but my girlfriend made out like a bandit. She came away with a new lightweight shell and full-zip bibs for about $70, trail running shoes for $10, and numerous other cheap goodies. I wish Scarpa Invernos fit my feet -- there was a barely-used pair for $100. It's amazing what people get away with returning to REI. I saw a pair of skis that looked like someone had skied on rocks in them for two seasons, and numerous pairs of boots whose Vibram soles were worn smooth. Not to mention the used underwear...

A pair of bulges are known to form to either side of the central offwidth if the weather is cold enough. Note that the bulges might require some tweaking in order to get a solid placement. Although it seems unlikely that there will be a female ascent of this route, many hardmen would enthusiastically cheer such an effort. [ 03-14-2002: Message edited by: slothrop ]

quote: Originally posted by Rodchester: What I cannot understand about this post, is how this guy's article connects to Bush Administration policy? Is the author now in the Bush Admin? You say "below is Mr. Anderson's vision" but the article was penned by Beckwith? Am I missing something here? The CATO insitute (Mr. Beckwith's sponsor for the article) is well known as a right wing liberatarian style think tank. They purposefully generate all kinds of crap. Beckwith's source for the passage about selling the "sky, broad vistas, and fragrant flowers" is Terry Anderson, who, according to Scott Silver, is an advisor to Pres. Bush. Anderson is a leading proponent of enviro-capitalism -- "doing good while doing well". He runs a think tank in Bozeman, MT called the Political Economy Research Center (PERC), "The Center for Free Market Environmentalism". A dubious marriage of ideas, if there ever was one.

quote: Originally posted by Bronco: You self righteous guys must have a hard time being such perfect drivers. What's it like never having made a mistake in your life? Eh? How do you learn from your mistakes if you get no negative feedback? If someone is totally oblivious to almost killing me, they should damn well know about it, so they are more aware of those of us who aren't driving cars but have to share the road. Sure, I've zoned out while driving and almost gotten into accidents, it happens. And after getting yelled at, I sure drove safer.

Yeah, it's a great in theory to try to be "the better person", but you have to let out your frustration at almost getting killed. I may be floating in a pool of inner peace as I ride or whatever, but as soon as someone swerves their deathmobile into my lane, I notice. That self-preservation instinct takes over, so for at least a second I want to rip off the driver's head. Usually, I can let it go. When I have caught up to people who almost ran me down, most of the time I am calm enough by then to wave, make the roll-down-your-window motion, and tell them very matter of factly "you almost hit me back there at Madison and Broadway, could you please be more careful?". Often, these people say they didn't even see me... riding in full daylight next to them.

Thanks for the discussion, everyone. This fee demo program sounds like some serious bullshit Dammit, it's frustrating knowing that your interests are out-represented by corporations... I know, nothing new there, but it still pisses me off. What sort of protest is going on June 15th?

quote: Originally posted by jon: People can cry all they want about other drivers, but it's nothing compared to commuting on a bike, as I'm sure Beck and Dan Larson can attest. Not like I don't drive but there is a population that sits somewhere on left end of the bell curve who just shouldn't be driving. An asshole a while back decided to pass me, then cut right in front of me, then immediately stopped trying to park while talking on his cell phone. He put me in a pretty sticky situation lucky, so I decided to get him a new drivers side mirror. Oh man, this kind of shit happens to me all the time. I think about carring my ice axe with me and so I can sink it deep into the asshole's trunk as he blazes by me, thus inflicting righteous punishment and giving me a free joyride.

Please pardon my ignorance here, but I'm trying to understand the fee demo issue. The idea is that the USFS is in need of funding because the federal funds (from taxes paid by the outdoorsy and sedentary alike) aren't flowing like they used to. USFS decides that they should start charging fees at sites (trailheads, and where else?) through, e.g., the NW Forest Pass. With such a fee program, the USFS can gauge usage through fee payments, as well as replace "lost" federal funds with funds obtained through the user fees. At first glance, this seems reasonable: ask those people who use the products of USFS' work (trails, parking lots) to pay for what they're using. Anonymous taxpayer (someone who's never walked a mile outside of a shopping mall) doesn't pay as much for something he or she never uses. Personally, I'm not too bothered paying taxes that are used to fund some things I'll never be interested in, like highways in North Dakota or really bad art, because, well, someone's getting some use out of it, and those people are paying for my highways, too. Share and share alike. Whatever. Of course, why does the USFS need more money in the first place? Are its funding priorities screwed up? Are they building trails for ATVs with that money ? I'm sure they have a backlog of trail maintenance, which I don't mind paying for, but how many new trails do they want to build? Are these the issues that people are getting their knickers in a twist about regarding fee demo? Is protesting fee demo a way to affect change in funding priorities? I'd be pleased if all the USFS ever did was keep roads reasonably drivable, trails accessible, and parking lots available. I don't give a shit about bathrooms, more trails, anything benefiting "motorized recreation", or any new facilities.