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Trask, You are right. Bush has about totally fucked this up. Let's just go home now because all popular support is eroding quickly and that's no way to kick this thing off. What a tool Bush is.

Erik, Your ability to spell, formulate sentences, and comb your hair makes you look like a moron. Having spent time in your presence degrading myself I would have to say, yes, you are a total backstabbing self absorbed tool. I'm sure Captain Caveman would love to wrench your neck. So anyway, you wanted to get up on your soapbox and preach with your misinformed 15 words a minute typing style and this is what you get. Erik why don't you come over and make me do anything? I doubt it.

I remind myself as I remind many of you that many of the people who are acting positively with regards to this issue are too actively engaged in living life to participate in trite internet chat dialogs like this one. I also remind myself that Seattle, the internet community, and the climbing community in general are traditionally liberal bastions. Even at the height of the Vietnam conflict there was oftentimes mention of the silent majority that supported the initial stated aims and more importantly supported soldiers, airmen and marines sent to defend the freedoms of this nation. Imagine if this time someone, like myself, takes the time and energy to organize the silent majority in counter protests and rallies. Imagine if the several hundred thousand combat soldiers were to march in defiance of your petty aims that do nothing excpet detract from their abilities to do their jobs with peace of mind knowing that they were supported by the folks back home. Imagine that? I imagine you would see exactly HOW SMALL AND INSIGNIFICANT YOU REALLY ARE. So pound your chests about your rallies, but be aware they mean nothing in the grand scheme of things. So it makes you feel important to post pictures of liberal flag wavers then go for it. Don't tread on me!

Erik, Like many of your compatriots you've done little with your life except live in Tacoma and spout off from your soapbox of dazed, confused, and inebriated rhetoric. At least I know HOW to put on a gas mask tool, and at least I know a thing or two about what I'm talking about having spent a great deal of time in study and observing FIRSTHAND exactly how much GOOD the UNITED STATES has done for many many many countries overseas. You and all your loser buddies oil conspiracy theories are weak and simple minded. Why did we not take it after the first war? HUH? Why has the United States despite it's prominence as the preeminent world power for many years not acted with manifest destiny towards the nations of the world? Face it. There are complex reasons for this war, but everything I see leads me to believe that we as a nation are threatened by foreign powers who care little about the good we have done and thwarted by allies who talk out both sides of their mouths. perhaps it's time overdue for a little shake up in the way the world runs. Get out of the UN for one. What a fucking joke. Like I want some of those tools running my life. Get out of the oil trap. Hydrogen is cheap and readily available. Dispose of some allies and some enemies at the same time. Sometimes kicking some fucker in the face when he needs it is the right thing to do. Saddam Hussein is going down and then that little fuck Korean Xenophobe is next.

The liberals continue to sell America's freedom all the while claiming that it is the right who intrudes on rights and liberties. Most of the causes the liberal lefts supports have suspicious motives and reek of selling out the USA. While liberals debate and slink around in the form of protesters and Bush haters the enemy grows stronger and bolder. You weaken this country with your rhetoric and your cowardly insistense on peace where peace has been bankrupted by violence committed against your fellow citizens. Will you sell their souls for your peace of mind (and weed puffing) because you personally abhor violence (lean toward mediocrity) for cowardly reasons? Will you claim this when your soldiers are locked in battle? Will you and the generation of peaceniks preceding you never understand that we hold priviledge in the world through strength? Will you sell this out because it's cool and you want to be a voice of (T)reason? Of the past 20 supreme court decisions about 19 of those have supported liberal causes. Look at where all this is taking us. Down a drain we can't escape from. Fuck you Erik. I know you're a pansy little liberal.

Most of you are a bunch of tools sitting behind a computer being good at being ineffectual. The world swirls around you and your virulent reaction is to post on Cascadeclimbers. Way to be losers.

Colin is sort of right. You have a greater chance of being incarcerated in the US that any other country in the world. Longer prison sentences and more criminal statutes. Good. I'll have a job busting dirtbags heads for years to come.

Wastoids. Sober up...cut your hair, and get in line for reorientation training. Courtesy of Uncle Sam. No more liberal whining will be tolerated in post 9/11 USA.

Post deleted by iceguy

DFA, When you quit clipping bolts then you can talk to me. Otherwise shut the fuck up asshole.

Some people on this site climb pretty well, but the fact remains that you are all still a bunch of whining pussies who get on my nerves. Bitches.

The elitist attitudes of the low wage losers that work at F.F. made me never buy a thing from them EVER. I'd rather spend my dimes at corporate REI than support FF's.

Gapers, Z yo-yo skied Granite Mountain (2 South/SW aspects in high to considerable conditions). Key is to ski fast and don't stop. Z P.S. Shoot guns

No one needs a gun to kick your ass. Bitch.

http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Snyder/cowards.html Excerpt: The Tyranny of the Elite Gun control is a moral crusade against a benighted, barbaric citizenry. This is demonstrated not only by the ineffectualness of gun control in preventing crime, and by the fact that it focuses on restricting the behavior of the law-abiding rather than apprehending and punishing the guilty, but also by the execration that gun control proponents heap on gun owners and their evil instrumentality, the NRA. Gun owners are routinely portrayed as uneducated, paranoid rednecks fascinated by and prone to violence, i.e., exactly the type of person who opposes the liberal agenda and whose moral and social "re-education" is the object of liberal social policies. Typical of such bigotry is New York Gov. Mario Cuomo's famous characterization of gun-owners as "hunters who drink beer, don't vote, and lie to their wives about where they were all weekend." Similar vituperation is rained upon the NRA, characterized by Sen. Edward Kennedy as the "pusher's best friend," lampooned in political cartoons as standing for the right of children to carry firearms to school and, in general, portrayed as standing for an individual's God-given right to blow people away at will. The stereotype is, of course, false. As criminologist and constitutional lawyer Don B. Kates, Jr. and former HCI contributor Dr. Patricia Harris have pointed out, "tudies consistently show that, on the average, gun owners are better educated and have more prestigious jobs than non-owners.... Later studies show that gun owners are less likely than non-owners to approve of police brutality, violence against dissenters, etc." Conservatives must understand that the antipathy many liberals have for gun owners arises in good measure from their statist utopianism. This habit of mind has nowhere been better explored than in The Republic. There, Plato argues that the perfectly just society is one in which an unarmed people exhibit virtue by minding their own business in the performance of their assigned functions, while the government of philosopher-kings, above the law and protected by armed guardians unquestioning in their loyalty to the state, engineers, implements, and fine-tunes the creation of that society, aided and abetted by myths that both hide and justify their totalitarian manipulation. AND Polite Society In addition to being enamored of the power of words, our conservative elite shares with liberals the notion that an armed society is just not civilized or progressive, that massive gun ownership is a blot on our civilization. This association of personal disarmament with civilized behavior is one of the great unexamined beliefs of our time. Should you read English literature from the sixteenth through nineteenth centuries, you will discover numerous references to the fact that a gentleman, especially when out at night or traveling, armed himself with a sword or a pistol against the chance of encountering a highwayman or other such predator. This does not appear to have shocked the ladies accompanying him. True, for the most part there were no police in those days, but we have already addressed the notion that the presence of the police absolves people of the responsibility to look after their safety, and in any event the existence of the police cannot be said to have reduced crime to negligible levels. It is by no means obvious why it is "civilized" to permit oneself to fall easy prey to criminal violence, and to permit criminals to continue unobstructed in their evil ways. While it may be that a society in which crime is so rare that no one ever needs to carry a weapon is "civilized," a society that stigmatizes the carrying of weapons by the law-abiding -- because it distrusts its citizens more than it fears rapists, robbers, and murderers -- certainly cannot claim this distinction. Perhaps the notion that defending oneself with lethal force is not "civilized" arises from the view that violence is always wrong, or the view that each human being is of such intrinsic worth that it is wrong to kill anyone under any circumstances. The necessary implication of these propositions, however, is that life is not worth defending. Far from being "civilized," the beliefs that counterviolence and killing are always wrong are an invitation to the spread of barbarism. Such beliefs announce loudly and clearly that those who do not respect the lives and property of others will rule over those who do. In truth, one who believes it wrong to arm himself against criminal violence shows contempt of God's gift of life (or, in modern parlance, does not properly value himself), does not live up to his responsibilities to his family and community, and proclaims himself mentally and morally deficient, because he does not trust himself to behave responsibly. In truth, a state that deprives its law-abiding citizens of the means to effectively defend themselves is not civilized but barbarous, becoming an accomplice of murderers, rapists, and thugs and revealing its totalitarian nature by its tacit admission that the disorganized, random havoc created by criminals is far less a threat than are men and women who believe themselves free and independent, and act accordingly. While gun control proponents and other advocates of a kinder, gentler society incessantly decry our "armed society," in truth we do not live in an armed society. We live in a society in which violent criminals and agents of the state habitually carry weapons, and in which many law-abiding citizens own firearms but do not go about armed. Department of Justice statistics indicate that 87 percent of all violent crimes occur outside the home. Essentially, although tens of millions own firearms, we are an unarmed society.