Peter_Puget

Quote:"Good climber or not, if someone takes a ludicrous stance on a subject being debated he deserves to be flamed." UNder the influence of Dwayner and a reference to Jerry Springer. I am editing this. But Greg I called you a name because that is an idiotic position to take. [ 08-21-2002, 12:30 PM: Message edited by: Peter Puget ]

Dave - I hope you are in influence at those Pub Clubs!

Stop thread drift now!

You guys crack me up. She rules! I first talked to her in the 80's and have had a crush on her ever since. Serious.

I am not Allison. But if I was I'd love to look at myself in the mirror. The smart, vivacious, warm, witty and sexy Allison almost gets me to the Pub Clubs every Tuesday. In summary: Allison

quote: Originally posted by chucK: Yes, words more offensive than that. BUT, those don't relate to climbing ability. Your whole revised premise is that specifically someone with lesser climbing ability should not question specifically the climbing ability of their better. It has nothing to do with the use of derogatory name-calling unless it relates to climbing ability right? Are you saying that it's OK or not OK to call someone an asshole or a dork based on whether they climb better than you or not? I don't think so. You should just stick to your other premise that people on this site should just treat each other with the respect one would give to someone in close striking distance. This is a reasonable suggestion. It has nothing to do with climbing or climbing ability. edit oops, it looks like I attributed PP's quote to JayB in my brain. So the above probably doesn't make a lot of sense. Peter Puget, What's this fascination with the Pub Club now? You want David to pick the music, you want me to pick up the tab? Why don't you just show up. I'm beginning to think you might be Trask or something? But now I can nicely flame you with insults! I would love to be Trask! Please confuse me withhim all of the time. Ok If I am really bored tonight I'll find some insults I know I have recieved a few. Fscination with PC? Well DS goes, so that why I brought it up in regard to him. And as a scientist I knew you could imagine large numbers but for the others I thought the PC tab might in their minds be as large as they coudl imagine. And how do you know I haven't been to a PC?

ChucK Quote: "I don't recall any cc.commies calling anyone a "weakassed climber" And isn't "I don't recall" what martha Stewart will be saying pretty soon? Now the literal "weakassed climber" may be true but words to that effect certainly. Words more offensive than that certainly. Damn if Icould leave my shadowy cover behind I'd bet you the PC tab on this one.

I say go explore the area. There are tons of short cracks around.

Glad to know you often concurr with me. Thanks for the correction. I must have confused you with someone else. With all the churning in here it's hard to differentiate who said what. But my point still stands. And to reiterate it: 5.11 is further from 5.14c than it is from 4th class.

Come on Trask that Dude looks like a lady

Hey it is in spray isn't it. Of course I will use evry opportunity to spread the word. Now Trask go buy a CD!

Fela Kuti lives and rules thru his music!

Godzilla we have defeated you in every film to the point where you serve your human masters. You are left stranded on Monster Island which is as puny as you. I've third classed you to get to the real climbing above. In a few thousand years your flakes will be buried under the earth while sport climbers will sending the new routes exposed by your demise!

quote: Originally posted by mattp: I agree with Puget that all of us who care about the crags share some measure of responsibility for what happens there if we fail to speak up when somebody is doing something wrong -- but as Dwayner's frequent complaint about a ten-year old episode demonstrates, it can be very touchy confronting someone about their ethical or cordial transgressions. For this reason, I wouldn't suggest that everybody has an OBLIGATION to speak out if they are (1) so pissed off they won't be able to address the offender with some modicum of respect, (2) worried that the offender may adopt a belligerent response, or (3) just not interested in dealing with it today. #1 and #2 I agree with but not #3.

I was at the Wet Spot the last time I saw someone smile like that before dropping their pants. Dwayner thats scary!

Sorry forgot the thumbs up!

Dwayner quote: “Dude...I detect a pattern in your discourse. You start pissing people off when you make it personal. I don't comment on your personal climbing resumé, occupation, or whatever when I'm discussing issues. When you start doing that, however, you cross a line, and change the nature of the discourse.” PP rejoinder: Wow what chutzpah! Dwayner you have made numerous insulting comments to many as you discuss things here on CC.com. I plead guilty to, in this thread, referencing your resume, however occupation I have not and “whatever” casts such a wide net that I pleading guilty just to be safe. I would say; however, that by bringing up repeatedly your climbing past ( eg I am from the 70s) you have yourself brought your resume into the fray. Now just what line do you claim I crossed? Read on! PP original quote: "Actually you and Pope have both indicated (several times) that you have never climbed a hard route by modern standards. I could go bother looking up the threads but since you know it to be true you also know I do know more than squat." Dwayner reply:”If you think many 5.11's trad and a few thrashes at 5.12 trad are not hard by modern standards, then I guess we're a bunch of weak-kneed washed-up pussies. (BTW, I ain't climbing that hard now but pope probably be up for it.) If modern standards include sporty clip and hang techniques, count me out. I have more respect for a guy who can climb 5.7 smoothly from the ground up, place his own gear, and go on his way then some dude spending 3 weeks of his life trying to rehearse and wire a short bolted sport climb.” ”I stand by my word...you don't know squat. So when you get personal, you will more than likely be speaking from ignorance and asking for a harsh rebuttal.” PP’s rejoinder: Getting personal? Speaking from ignorance? I hate to say it but 5.11 just ain’t very hard. By the way back in ’79 or ’80 Eric Wenstien told me that “anyone can climb 5.11.” I am not sure I agree but his point was well taken. Some time ago JayB suggested that perhaps you didn’t climb hard and that may be influencing your viewpoint. Pope responded saying he was right you didn’t climb hard. Now I do not think that Pope, JayB or myself was getting personal with insults when any of us claimed you did not climb hard routes by modern standards. I don’t climb hard by modern standards. Even by late 70’s standards 5.11 wasn’t hard. So I say “wrongo boyo” to the getting personal and the ignorance claims. To be clear in my original quote “you” meant you Dwayner not you Pope and Dwayner. I’ll admit it was a bit ambiguous and you ran with it using the plural “you” in your response. Touche. I never said anything about being a washed up pussy. You did and I wonder why you think that way and why you think someone stating you are not climbing hard by modern standards is an insult. Also I do claim several unprovoked insults from you to me. (eg P.P. you're back to your old, tired self) But read on below! PP quote:"Dwayner! Please refrain from insulting me! I am a fragile poster." Dwayner quote:”Another Pugetian theme: if your skin is thin, you must by your verbage assume others are much thicker.” PP rejoinder:Silly I was poking fun. I was once called a Fragile Poster by your friend Pope. And as I demonstrated above I was not being personally insulting but with this line with humor indicating how your discourse could be interpreted as such. PP quote:"Oh and did you mean perhaps logion?" Dwyaner response: “No, I meant "logician". You are a pseudo-logician.” PP rejoinder: I know silly. I was making a silly joke. Anyone reading send a PM if you liked it! Dwayner quote: I know you want to be my buddy so cool your jets and think before you type! PP rejoinder: I know you want to be my buddy so cool your jets and think before you type! Hugs PP NB – And honestly I do think my little theory about hangdoging is not too far off the mark. Dwayner - get to bed!

quote: Originally posted by Dwayner: I'm busy at the moment and don't have time to rephrase what I've already stated. If you don't understand it...some other time. P.P. you're back to your old, tired self. a) you don't know squat about what Dwayner has climbed, or can or cannot climb. b) you are to be recognized as a master pseudo-logian. c) you give me a dang headache. d) you think sport-doggin' and its accompanying luggage has improved climbing? I disagree. e) did I mention that you give me a headache? Sexy Coco.....I thought you went out to clip some choss? Your time might be better teaching P.P. a few of the latest Moondance steps. Ouch those personal insults. Actually you and Pope have both indicated (several times) that you have never climbed a hard route by modern standards. I could go bother looking up the threads but since you know it to be true you also know I do know more than squat. Dwayner! Please refrain from insulting me! I am a fragile poster. Oh and did you mean perhaps logion? I'd be happy to learn the Moondance. I am waiting for Sexy's new video so I can learn the basics in my house. Soon thousands of housewives (and aspiring sportos too) will be losing pounds doing the moondance.

One fallacy in Dwayner's critique and it may be simply the result of never climbing very hard routes is as follows: He derides hang dogging on a specific route, yet in the easy grades where Dwayner admittedly resides he ignores the fact that the moves are for the most part less unique than at the higher grades. For example by climbing one layback at a lower grade you are basically training for many others. So a fall here or a hang thereon many different routes is in essence the same as hangdoging on a single very hard route. Admittedly this hangdoging by another name is much less efficient and effective than modern sport hangdoging but truly it is still hangdoging as well. As a proud American pragmatist I am ashamed we didn't lead the way on this. PP

Thanks Sexy! Hang around for awhile.

Dan check out NWOG.org. Scotty made it to the summit!

You're right but if you had more experience placing pro you'd find that 5.10a/b isn't too far off. PP By the way Sexy start posting more. We need an anitdote to the broken record that is being played here now. [ 08-20-2002, 01:38 PM: Message edited by: Peter Puget ]

Godzilla - Bow before the 10th/11th? pitch of the Regular Route on Half Dome (Not to mention the short pitch after the Thank God Ledge Traverse!) Damn! Now that Ithink of it those idiots on the FA placed bolts on that route too! Should have waited for real men such as Higbee and Erikson before they bolted that route! PP

With the caveat that I have not seen the Z2 and Z1 sizes I would think that they do not replace ball nuts.

Dwayney - I have to completely disagree with your advice to Erik. Ignoring your value-laden term "rock police" I say that it is our obligation to let someone know it is a bad thing if they nail a clean route. Any experiences you have had with idiots are simply not pertinent to this issue. To watch someone nail Iron Horse and not say anything simply is BS. After all the hyperbolic grousing related to ethics on this site, I am surprised you would suggest silence in a face to face encounter. I am not advocating rudeness just a clear statement of fact As far as 10% you bring this route up every few months, I'd say a better example is the bolted line on Snow White. Especially since bolts have been added to sections already lead free w/o bolts. But since you mention it, please describe the nature of the clean pro on each section of #10 as bolted and the original route. Erik - I say if you see someone with a hammer, pins on their rack, or even using a hammer to clean a "loose rock" or piece of pro. Let them know it's clean. The worse thing they can do is to tell you where to go.