Kyle

quote: Originally posted by trask: So what's your point drippy? Take your vitamins bitch! (What's my point? First trask, what's YOUR point, you ignorant little..... dust mite?? You pop up, spew a line or 2 of hateful, stupid or just plain annoying text, then later you pop up again to apologize for or edit your last dumb comment. I'm waiting to see the first remotely interesting or relevant utterance come from your infantile trap. Still waiting... nothing there huh? Right- I'm guessing you're an angry 14 year old girl with some serious issues... get over yourself, 'bitch'.) Holly et al, I don't think anyone here's looking for "changes" to the site... the site's fine, really, but like many common resources on the web it's slightly, shall we say, abused. If I have a point here, it's the same weak old point lots of folks have made on this and a million other internet forums- that not only is there nothing wrong with spray, there's also no harm or shame in making an attempt to stay on topic once in a while, particularly in a specialized and regional group like this. Dru suggests people should post more interesting stories... I agree completely- I for one can't get enough beta, route conditions, and TR's. But I'd guess I'm not the only one here that's reluctant sometimes to post to what seems like an overly hostile and reactionary audience. With over 1400 registered users, there seem to be only 30 or so that post with any regularity. What's with all the lurkers- surely a few of them have something interesting to share? Maybe like me, a lot of them are wondering what's the point of saying anything at all if every post gets pecked to small pieces, then sprayed into a fine mist? I also have to say I'm a bit amazed & embarrassed by some of the angry and mean-spirited jive that gets slung around here, especially lately. I think what we've got here is a classic case of November cabin fever- folks are frustrated because the rock is wet and the ice isn't formed, and they're getting all tetchy, and snapping like dogs at imaginary flies. Don't worry peeps- the ice will form, the snow will fall, and soon enough we'll all be qeueing up at the base of Chair Peak to take turns dropping ice on each other... So is there any harm in covering an entire site with spray? Probably not, but I'd submit this analogy... take Paris for example (trask- a little tip for you; it's in France). It's a great city- lots of cool things to see & do. But nearly everywhere you go in Paris you're accompanied by the ever-present stench of urine. Seriously- it's worse than the Nose route. It's because people there pee everywhere- they pee in the streets, storefronts, mailboxes, phone booths, etc. It's not for lack of restrooms, it just seems to be an arrogant & misguided expression of personal freedom- "I pee wherever I want, because I can, and to hell with anyone who doesn't like it". There are certainly more offensive smells than urine, but it strikes me as a bit sad that no one in our lifetime will ever know what Paris is like without the stink, or what a public forum is like without the spray cloud. Say whatever you want (and I'm sure you will- fire away... I won't be here to read it), but I maintain that excessive spray can and does detract from a site; it scares away sponsorship and advertising money and can keep a site from achieving its true potenti- Rrrrring!! Hold on- that's my phone. "Hello?""Kyle, it's your life calling. Line one.""What? My Life? Ohhhh, that's right- I have one." Sorry folks- I have to take this call. I'm gonna put you on hold for just a minute, but I'll be right back... Background music: awful muzak rendition of'I'm walkin on sunshine, Oh oh' (come on- sing along; you know this tune)'I'm walkin on sunshine, Oh oh''I'm walkin on sunshine, Oh oh''And don't it feel good! Doo do, doo doo doo do do do...'

It was funny... the first time

There's nothing wrong with spray per se, but it doesn't seem to be able to stay in its place. Problem is this whole site's getting so saturated with spray that it's becoming less interesting by the day. Soon there will only be about 4 guys left here, all non-stop circle-spraying each other in every post.

Typical Picketts story... we approached Mt Fury from Big Beaver c.g. on Ross Lake, intending to climb the N. Buttress route. It took us a very long hard day and a half to reach the shoulder of Luna Pk, & by then we were so totally thrashed & exhausted we almost turned around & headed out right there. It was a humbling moment for us to realize that we didn't have the oomph (or the time and food) to do the N. Butt, and so we went & did the East Glacier route on Fury instead, which was a blast. I don't know what lesson we learned, other than reinforcing the fact that we were very small and expendable bits of meat in the vast dragon-belly that is the Pickett Range. For any trip up there I'd now allow at least an extra 2 days' time and provisions, on top of what I think I should need for a climb.

Someone's trying to get a serious answer to a climbing-related question on a non-spray section of a climbing forum? What is he thinking? Silly man... Dennis- your Salomons should work fine assuming you've got them well-fitted with the right kind of crampons, and you're sticking to the more popular (read: less-than vertical) gully ice lines. My only concern would be the cold... I can vouch that it gets seriously butt-cold and windy in the ravine, and I'm not sure the super 9's would be warm enough for all-day comfort. But hey, over the years, people have climbed huntington in winter wearing every possible kind of boot- it just depends on your own comfort level (or threshold for pain)... I'm just kind of a weenie, and would rather use plastics for that sort of thing.

From what I read, he hasn't been convicted of anything; he's only been charged & is up for a hearing soon. Here's an article about it... http://www.sltrib.com/2001/oct/10202001/utah/141799.htm

I thought it was interesting that on some of his photos he listed the amount of time he spent 'waiting for the light'. I guess he (like the rest of us) isn't getting any younger... sometimes you just can't wait.

You can visit the artist at http://www.fatali.com------------------------------------------------- From http://www.nps.gov/morningreport 00-661 - Arches NP (UT) - Follow-up: Resource Violations On the morning of September 19, 2000, visitors reported that fires had been set in the area immediately around Delicate Arch. Investigating rangers found that four fires had apparently been lit on the previous night, one of which was still smoldering. Three of the fires, set on bare rock and sand directly underneath and beside Delicate Arch, caused scorching and discoloration of the red sandstone. Efforts by local park staff to restore the fire scars were unsuccessful, in part because of the presence of an oily or waxy substance that stained and penetrated into the rock surface beneath each of the scars. An intensive investigation led to the identification of Michael Fatali, 36, of Springdale, Utah, as the man who had set the fires. On October 19th, Fatali was charged in federal court with several violations of federal law in connection with these fires and others set at Canyonlands NP. Fatali, who apparently used the fires as a photographic technique, is charged with injuring or defacing mineral resources in a national park; unauthorized fire in a national park; lighting or using a fire that damages or burns national park resources; leaving a fire unextinguished on public lands; and aiding and abetting. Each of the seven misdemeanor counts carries a potential maximum prison sentence of six months and a fine of up to $5,000. Investigators believe that Fatali used Duraflame logs to start several of the fires, and that Fatali started similar fires about four years ago at Horsehoof Arch and in a slot canyon known as "The Joint Trail," both in Canyonlands NP. Restoration work on the Arches burns was completed on October 20th. Two of the three fire scars are no longer visible, and the worst of the three fire scars - the one directly beneath the arch - looks much better than before, though still visible. The rehabilitation project was undertaken by Bob Hartzler, NPS architectural conservator from Santa Fe, with assistance from Angelyn Rivera of Bandelier NM. Hartzler has described their efforts as follows: "Our treatments were conservative, consistent with our practice of balancing treatment effectiveness against the impact of the treatments on the monument. Most of the soot staining remaining on the sandstone is firmly adhered in the top millimeter of the stone, and proved to be resistant to treatments with either of the two cleaning preparations we brought. Spot tests with a small range of over-the-counter cleaning products also proved mostly ineffective. Cleaning efforts by the park and a year of weathering and natural erosion have removed most of the primarily surface soiling. We were able to remove all of the melted plastic-like deposits... Mechanical removal of the top layer of the soiled stone would eliminate the remaining soiling, but we believe that treatment is not warranted, and do not recommended it. Some soiling remains, but I believe the appearance of the damaged areas was improved, and the stains will continue to fade." [Karen McKinlay-Jones, ARCH, 10/22]

He was the Seattle-based Federal prosecuter that was recently gunned down in what may have been a professional hit. His obituary states that he was an experienced Cascade mountaineer, and therefore one of our own. My deepest condolences to his family and any of his friends that may visit this forum.

Speaking of AT gear- I'm ready to take the plunge & get some of my own. Not that I have $$ to burn, but if you could buy any outfit for all-around Cascade AT, and price was no object, what would be your ideal setup?

Freeclimb- speaking of science, I checked out your web site, and there's some good stuff there. I'll come back & read up when I have more time... just might learn something.

Think you can sink my hunch with your feeble science? Ha! My hunches are (almost) always right. IMO ice climbing's founded more in faith than science...

freeze baby freeze... I've got a hunch this is going to be a great ice season!

I was all packed & almost did it last weekend, but some family obligations came up at the last minute & I cancelled (& damn the weather was nice too!). Now I'm thinking I'll wait until next season & do it mid-summer when the days are longer (hiking a lot of miles by headlamp just isn't _that_ much fun). I want to spend the last remaining nice weekends this season getting as much climbing (ICE!) done. Thanks all,

Anyone been up on the NE Face of Eldo lately?