Wallstein

Matt- Why would I be jealous? And did I ever say I was defining the future myself. It takes a generation of climbers to define the future. Hey I would love to see these kids show up at "our" crags. Yes I do know the type that sneers when you walk up to the lower wall. Most of the time they are the people that don't climb at index often. They are the people that were taught that competition with others is part of our sport. I do to compete, but it is internally with myself and not externally with others. And yes I do pull out shiny new gear and little do most poeple know that its not my 1st nor 2nd set of cams. And the rope I am tying into is the 5th rope this year for me. Everytime I am at the crags I walk around and say hello to people. So what is your point Matt. There are some rude people that climb. People that know me know that I am not like that at all. What is the next level these kids are going to take our sport to? And another number grade doesn't count as another level. What people are you talking about in the Valley? Dean, Timmy, Chris Mac, Cedar, Miles, Erik Sloan, Russ, Eric George, Ammon Mcneally. If these are these are the people in the valley you are talking about Chris is the only one to have started in the gym. So I don't see your point again. I really hope more people from my generation start putting up first ascents. Then we might be part of the future of our sport. But as of now another letter grade higher or another sport route at little si isn't the future. -mike p.s. goodbye to everyone, I am going to Yosemite today for a couple of months.

Thomas, You might want to do a little research before claiming girth hitching two slings together is stronger than linking them with a 'biner. When you girth hitch two slings together you can loose anywhere from 30-40 percent of its strength. A sewn loop of 11/16" will hold on average 5700lbs. When two loops are girth hitched the system will hold anywhere from about 3500lbs to 4300lbs. This is about 17kn which is below the rating given to the sling by the manufacturer. Still plenty strong for many applications. If you are using 9/16" loss of strength is even greater. But I would never girth hitch two slings on any important piece or an anchor that might take a fall. My point is null though if you are using tied slings to start with. Tied slings already have a %30 loss in strength compared to sewn ones. -Mike

jim work?! yeah right, homeboy has got it figured out.

jim work?! yeah right, homeboy has got it figured out.

I don't think the future of my sport lies in the hands of these kids that "crank." At least I hope it doesn't. Indoor climbing might be great and all but I don't think the future of our sport is going to be defined by some kids that climb 5.13 in the gym and cant climb a 5.8 hand crack. These kids maybe part of some avenue our sport goes down but the road dead ends. Our future lies in the kids that aren't scared to go outside and get cold, dirty, wet and tired and only get to do 1 lousy pitch. Or the kid that is willing to do anything for someone to take him climbing in the moutains. The kid that dreams of living in Yosemite and going to Chamoniox, not the kid that dreams of going to "THE happy boulders" (replace this with the most current popular bouldering area) or Rifle. I don't have a problem with kids or people that climb in the gym but when people start telling me that this is the future for our sport I get a little upset. Take the "crankin" kids off their high pony so they don't fall off and hurt themselves.

We climbed at Castle on Saturday and it was great. Everything was dry. No reason to not climb there. We then went to icicle on sunday and climbed givlers dome. Everything around us looked dry. The road is still closed right past eight mile campground. mike

I am responsible for the bolt coming off on Town Crier. I replaced all of the bolts on the route with "new" (read shitty) bolts. I have used identical bolts to these numerouse times without problem. The ones up there right now are 1/4" by 1 1/2" split shank bolts. They are very similir to the old standard quarter incher bolt. These were a large upgrade from the 1/8" by 3/4" that Beckey had put in back in '66. I choose these bolts because I didn't want the route to turn into and A1 industrial climb but still be safe. Well I guess I choose wrong, because this is now the second bolt that has broke off and I would consider every other one extremely suspect. All I can figure is I got a really shitty box of bolts. I have had friends from the American Safe Climbing Association take a look at the bolts and they gave them the OK (before any of them broke). PLEASE DO NOT ATTEMPT TOWN CRIER UNTIL NEXT WEEKEND. I am going to borrow a bosch maybe tomorrow and try and save my name by replacing all of the bolts with new stainless 3/8". I have already done this for most of the anchors at the belays. So if anyone has a bosch I can borrow for a day please let me know. I have had to hand drill the rest of them up there and I don't have the time to drill 10 new 3/8" holes by hand. And maybe someone from the board would be willing to go up there and give me a hand with it. TimL? We could knock it out in a day no problem. All of my partners already have plans for the weekend and I was planning on going to smith but this is probably a little more important to get done. So sorry to all, my goal to make town crier safer for the masses has (temporarily) failed. If anyone had any questions or would like to help please email me at m_schaefera5@hotmail.com Mike 'feelin pretty shitty' Schaefer

I would have to disagree with Freerider about approach shoes just being fancy. I don't leave home without my Mountain Masters. They rock! And to say a pair of trail running shoes climbs just as good is ridiculous. I have worn many good pairs of trail running shoes and yes they have always felt better than my approach shoes until, I got 5.10 mountain masters. They are just as comfartable and have just as much traction and a hell of alot more traction on rocky terrain than running shoes/trail running shoes. And they do keep water out better than my running shoes that are usually composed of alot of mesh and thin fabrics so your feet breath better. I have had bad luck on approaches with Garmont sticky weekends, Sportiva Boulders, the old 5.10 tennies, and every other pair made in the last 8 years but those other shoes don't even compare to the new bread of approach shoes. I would say give the mountain masters a try and you won't be disapointed. Mike 'my shoes didn't make me look better' Schaefer

We all know spray doesn't count for squat around these parts. So lets see your pics Dennis? Hey your mistaken about the coleman headwall and the north ridge, <SPRAY>I rode down both of those with a McDonald's meal tray duct taped to my feet. And you better hurry I am going for the north face of Rainier and sending the THERMONUCLEAR coulior. And don't worry USA Today is going to be there to take pics so EVERYONE KNOWS I AM WAY SICK!!!! </SPRAY> [This message has been edited by Wallstein (edited 03-16-2001).]

I would say go with the A5 double with exp fly. Alex is right that for sq ft per person the double is smaller but the benefits out weigh this detail. That is unless you are a really big guy. Being able to share food, water, beer and all the other important bivi items is a real plus when you are ledge bound. Also not having to setup two ledges at the bivi is always nice. Setting up one can be enough of a hassle. An even nicer adition than 1 tent pole is 2 tent poles. With 2 poles the space inside feels much larger. If you have the option I would also recommend getting the cabana exp fly for the double ledge. The first time I tried this it was by mistake but it worked alot better than the normal exp fly. Since the cabana fly is larger there is more volume inside the fly which makes for more space inside. The trick is to clip the ledge into the fly with a doubled shoulder length. This gives much more head room. And as for the cabana ledge I have never used one (thank god) but I have heard people say they are epic to setup and this was coming from people that have alot of experience. If you don't have a long reach (people under 6") it is impossible to setup by yourself. Having to wait at the belay while your partner cleans the last pitch is a real drag. But honestly it really doesn't matter what type of ledge you have, I have used tri-fold lawn chairs from wall-mart, a single fish that was 15 years old for two people on a 4 day wall, and no ledge at all. The more comfortable you are the later you get out of bed and the later you start climbing. And for brand names just look in mags at what people are using for big climbs, A5. Black diamonds go up the easiest but if they are put away wrong it can take hours to setup them up and they don't have a exp fly just a tent that sits inside the ledge that has much less volume than the A5 exp. I have also heard the BD ledges aren't as stable as the A5. The Pika ones look jingus like most of their products. I might take a BD or a Pika or Fish ledge on El Cap but never would I take one on and expedtion where it really counts. And if you think an A5 with an exp fly is to much money I would give you a screamin deal on mine! It only has somewhere around 60 nights in it and a couple of holes in the fly. You can also check www.google.com for past threads on rec.climbing about portaledges. I am sure there is lots. -mike

Mike- The route isn't in the guide book as Erik, Allen and I just put it up 3 weeks ago. The rack is pretty standard, doubles up to #3 camalot and a small selection of stoppers. To find the route head left from rattletale until you come to another cliff, about 500yds. The route starts on the far right side with a left leaning hand crack. This pitch could use a little more cleaning. It ends at a large tree that is standing in front of the chimney. On top of the chimney head up and left on slab. This brings you to a short steep corner with long reaches (at least for me) to good jugs. This is the only part on the route where pro is kinda difficult. It is there, you just have to find it. There will be a tree on top with a sling for rapping, one 60m will make it to the ground. You can check out some pics of the route at Mike Adamson's site : http://www.alpinelite.com/tobyhenson.htm If you go and do it tell me what you think of it. We thought it was a great route. Mike Schaefer

Pete- If its raining in Zion it would probably be raining within a short drive and that would mean the sandstone is wet. Maybe its just a myth but sandstone is known to get really weak once it gets wet. Doesn't sound to safe to be climbing on. Its to bad that you look at being in Yosemite as "stuck." I have never felt like i was "stuck" there even when I actually couldn't leave due to snow.

Pope- I didn't realize it was already spring in JTree or is Yossarian planning on getting tail two nights in a row when spring does arrive? And bro you don't count for both nights. More importantly I have a question- Yosemite's fines brew = Olde English or Green Labels? My vote would be for the cold gold one. Maybe we should start another thread for this question? [This message has been edited by Wallstein (edited 03-09-2001).]

Pete, Go check the weather on any of the many internet weather sites and you will see for the next 5 days yosemite is suppose to have clear skies and temps around 60. Zion on the other hand is showing partly cloudy and maybe some rain in the next week. Maybe you have been living in WA to long if partly cloudy and possible rain is better than sunny and 60. Both places have questionable weather at this time of year. A good option is to just start driving south and if the weather is good in the valley stay there and if it's not keep going to Zion.

Big Stones, I did the prow last may with the guy who drilled most of the new bolts on the prow (and zodiac and the west face and a grip of other routes). He can barely swing a hammer now. Mank is sorta part of the game. Its part of the trade route game. There are plenty of routes in the valley that aren't fix fests with rows of manky bolts and heads. I have done the New Dawn and got to lead every rivet ladder on it since I was the lightest guy on the team. I have also got to lead every rivet ladder pitch on the T-Trip so lets just say I am well versed in manky rivets. The funny thing is though, the worst rivets I have ever been on were the old ones on Town Crier. The prow might be better for hauling but, I have done the column 7 times now and have never taken more than a back pack so I have never really worried about the hauling. Dragging big bags up things is hard work compared to ditching all of the weight and just going for it. I might consider taking a haulbag up the column if my criteria was met: 1. The haulbag was full of beer and food (mostly beer)and 2. my partner was the blonde-cutie that works at the awahnee front desk. If my criteria is ever met I would probably do the prow. -mike

There is probably still snow in icicle that is melting creating runoff and wet crags. But I am not sure. But I am sure that Index will be dry.

There you go again Erik, blindly spraying wrong beta everywhere! quote: Originally posted by erik: i think the buttress you are talking about s condor buttess.

Big Stones, You think the Prow is a better climb than the south face? The prow seemed really trashy to me. If was full of fixed junk and it was like connecting the dots. At least on the south face you get to do straight-forward clean aid. I think its kinda like this: the prow would be a warm up for the zodiac (fixed aid climbing) and the South face would be a warm up for the regular route on half dome or the nose(mixed free and aid). I guess it just depends on what your looking for. I was just turned off by all the junky stuff on the prow. To each his own! And you are right about N.Dome gully, it could be pretty sketchy at night if you haven't done it.

The #4 we found was placed perfectly behind a large block at the anchor. There were two bolts there so the only reason we thought it could be left was when the the team was at the anchor one guy was hanging on the cam so he wouldn't crowd the belay and he must of lead of first just leaving the cam for his partner to clean. I have had things just like this happen to me numerous times before. I lost two cams on liberty crack when my partner just left them there. I almost lost a #5 on El Cap but our third guy was jugging past the already cleaned pitch and thought he scored some booty but it was my cam that the cleaner had accidently left. I think I have lost a whole set of cams now due to spacey partners, but at least they have always been good about replacing them!

I have looked at the route from the road and it looked fairly obvious. You can see where leland scrubbed and put in the bolts. It is the only big clean streak down the wall. So a topo might no even be need. It looks fun.

I haven't done Hyperspace but I did Iconoclast last summer wich shares all but the last two pitches. Like Retrosaurus said getting to the big ledge kinda sucked. It was alot harder than expected. Doing Iconoclast might be a better option as you can then avoid the nasty flaired chimney. The route was absolutely wonderfull. We started at about 2:00pm so we didn't get baked off the wall and the route took us about 4 hours. We did the route in August, I think, and the upper pitches of hyperspace still looked kinda dirty and maybe wet. I took a set of nuts and doubles from #3 camalot to blue aliens and then picked up a #4 camalot on route (booty!). This rack seemed sufficient. Routefinding can be tricky but it wasn't to bad. The 4th pitch wondered a bit and it felt like I was off route though I finished at the right anchors. Overall the route is very exciting and entertaining. Good luck.

I would say Yosemite is your best bet for weather in March. But don't count out index. If you do make the trip to the valley I would recommend the South Face of washington's column or the west face of the leaning tower. Both can be done cleanly and both have very nice bivi ledges down low on the route. The west face is extremely overhanging and stays dry in the rain. The south face has more free climbing and better aid but isn't as steep and doesn't have the exposed feel like the west face. The south face is the most popular grade V in yosemite and a pretty dam good route. I think I have done it 4 times now. And I will probably do it again soon. If you want more beta feel free to email me. Hope this helped Mike

So Dr. Spock how did you asses the instability of the route? Did you just look at the base of the climbs and didn't notice any change? Unless you hiked above the cliff and looked around I doubt you assesed where the rock fall was coming from and what still might come down. I didn't think parts of Godzilla were going to fall down but I was worried about the numerous small rocks perched on top of the lower wall. And yes I would consider Index to be a little more dangerous for the next couple of days. And wasn't there two aftershocks reported and I have heard there still could be more. Granted these might not be big but it doesn't take much for the rock to start falling. I looked at index like I would an avalanche area. I wouldn't go there after a big snow dump like I wouldn't climb at index after a big rock fall. I believe it would be impossible to see signs of instability by looking around the base of the lower wall. And just because you didn't see anymore rockfall doesn't mean there still isn't rocks to fall. I heard rock fall hours after the quake. And yes I have taken greater risks than climbing at index after a quake. (Hell I just lead cunning stunt without the stupid bolts) But these risks I took were needed to get me to the top of a big climb. I don't take risks to just go cragging. Maybe thats the difference in opinion. I would be a little upset with myself if I had lived through rockfall on El Cap, in Alaska and the Cascades to get taken out while top roping some route at index. I just don't understand why you just couldn't give it a day to settle. Was it that important that you climbed a couple pitches? It sounds like you had planned on being at work anyways. I drove up there from Tacoma to go climbing and I was very disapointed that I didn't get to do more climbing but not nearly as disapointed as I would of been if one of us would of been hurt. The point of this board is hear other people's opinion and try to understand why they have these opinions. Just like I am trying to understand your actions.

What does rain have to do with you not using your brain? I was climbing at index when the quake happened. My partner and I had to do a lot of rock dodging. So what is the difference between going back to work and going climbing? Nothing! So you had to be somewhere huh? How about taking a hike through the forest or sitting by the river thanking god that you are still alive. I guess you must be immune to rockfall or your large head will pretect you. Well, I sure didn't feel safe at the base of the wall after hear rocks flying down much after the earthquake. But those would probably just bounce right off your ego. Index and climbing are goin't to vanish but your life can. Their are going to be another 100 days to climb at index this year and I don't understand how people could justify climbing for a half day to do routes they probably have already done. I grew out of the invincible stage when I was about 18 but we all must mature at different rates. Mike

What is the concern over power drills? If you need a power drill to put up a bigwall it ain't worth it. Hand power is the power that should be used on bigwalls. Mike