Yossarian

quote: Originally posted by Dru: MEC is run as a non-profit co-op. REI is run as a for-profit co-op?? Hence the Incorporated in their name? All co-op's are for profit, why would one be formed otherwise?. They either return the profits to the members or re-invest them back in the company. There are no shareholders nor owners, just members.

I agree 100% Just look at the rec.climbing newsgroup- a bunch of namecalling and whining. While it's ok to spray, poke fun at each other, and strongly disagree; abusive comments or threats while hiding behind your computer is chickenshit.

quote: Originally posted by erik: this company mass markets outdoor recreation cheaping it, to make a buck. What an outrage!!! A company trying to sell its product to a large number of people by undercutting their competitors in order to make a profit. This is business boys. The number one priority of a company is to make money. If some of their actions upset you, stand by your guns and don't ever shop there. While I agree shops like PMS and FF are more knowledgable, I often shop (like many of you, I assume) at REI because they often have lower prices and a good return policy. In terms of manufacturing in Mexico, REI still makes many products in the USA including carabiners. And no, I don't wear a green vest to work, just a fan of capitalism.

Black Diamond is having a sale on BP's http://www.bdel.com/php/specials.php

With the added cost and weight of BD screws, the only place I may choose them over USHBA is at-your-limit, easy access waterfall climbs. I don't see why BD would be picked over USHBA for any climb where weight is a concern. They don't thread that much better.

I'll stick up for our old friend Outer Space. The 300 ft. handcrack sucks up gear and hands like no other while Dreamer is mostly scampering up slabs. Crux on Outer Space is way more fun than Dreamer (screw style, just jump for the flake). Goats? How can you not like a curious animal that watches you from the base and than greets you at the top? The views from Dreamer are better, esp. in fall when everything turns orange, but in terms of climbing- Outer Space is the clear winner. DISCLAIMER: The above opinion is bias in the fact that I've done done OS multiple times while I've only made it just past the short handcrack on D. In fact the only pitches I HAVE done on D is the handcrack and the pitch just below it, but hell those bottom pitches all looked like twinkle toe slab dancn' to me.

How about those army stoves that use chemical tabs? I don't know how they perform but they're just as light as the pop can stove and use solid fuel instead of gas. Anyone ever use these things?

Although it seems like a hollow threat, I'd still be weary of the cell phones this posse is "armed" with. I hear they cause brain tumors.

Don't bring two ropes, one is fine.

The unique aspect of this article, I thought, was how is didn't take the same approach as Outside and other magazines did- glorifying the escape of the Americans. Instead, it highlights the stupidity of climbing in a hostile area and the impact this stupidity had on the local population. The violence this particular area is going through is alot more important then a group of kids trying to climb a wall. Bouchard brought this fact out.

The story needs to include more tales of Mark Twight and his adventures with Gu.

There once was a man from Nantucket...

John Bouchard wrote an amazing article for Climbing based on American climbers being taken hostage in Kyrgyzstan. http://www.climbing.com/Pages/feature_stories/feature206.html

Anyone use that dry treatment stuff you buy in a bottle?

I cannot express the impact these thoughts have had on my life. They have helped my redefine who I am and the nature of the world around me. Think about them: "If the doornob flew away, how would it say goodbye?" "Turtles are nature's suction cup"