Petzl Ergo, Nomic and Black Diamond Fusion Reviews

[jon]

We've just published our review of the Petzl Ergo ice tool as well as a comparison of the Petzl Ergo versus the Black Diamond Fusion ice tools. We have a few more tools we are finishing up reviewing from CAMP/Cassein and E-Climb. These were written by Dave Burdick who also wrote our excellent Introduction to Ice Climbing Article. Check em all out.

 

Black Diamond Fusion versus Petzl Nomic Comparison and Review

 

Petzl Ergo Review

 

Ice Climbing Gear Review

 

[icmtns]

Thanks for posting this....The blog post does a great analysis of the tools.

 

I'd like to share some in the field experience:

 

My climbing partner has the Fusions. (He replaced his old Fusions with the new green ones)

 

On a recent trip, he was using the ice pick on the fusions. He broke the pick on the Fusions, so switched to my Cobras. He felt they were far superior to the Fusions,couldn't believe how much better they climbed,and now wants a pair....

 

A pain he discovered on the new Fusions is that the bolt loosens after every couple of swings...Frustrating!!! His old Fusions don't have the problem, they have 2 screws. (yes he could use loctite to try and remedy). But as the photo shows, both the petzl's use 2 bolts.

 

Also a consideration about the hammer on the Fusions are that they don't work as well for hammering,they are a funny angle so you can't effectively hammer.

 

 

[Dane]

Loose pick bolts on the Fusion have been a reoccuring problem since day one. Replace the chromed bolts with the original Cobra black oxided bolts helps. A little sandpaper applied to the outside contact surface of the bolt hole with the black bolt torqued with a good size wrench solves the problem. Good luck changing that combo in the field.

 

 

Another data point after climbing on the new Ergos for a season now. They climb everything as well as the Nomic and as it gets steeper most things even better. Ergo is great on moderate terrain as well. I suspect it will replace the Nomic for most users.

 

 

More here:

http://coldthistle.blogspot.com/2010/12/petzl-ergo.html

 

A search there will get you all sorts of info on Petzl and BD tools.

[MickVB]

You kinda answered a question I had concerning the Fusions vs. the Cobra's. Is there anything out there regarding Nomic's vs. the Cobra's? For mixed/alpine and a good ice tool. If I only had money for one set; should it be the Nomic's or Cobra's? And, if a wider choice Cobra's vs. Fusion's? Again, I know "what's the intended use?", but if I'm down to one set....

 

Thanks!!

[Dane]

I think it has been a pretty easy choice for some time.

 

There are some good mountain "axes" and just one extremely good all around tool.

 

More here:

 

http://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/review.php?id=3533

 

 

[icmtns]

I'd like to try out the nomics for a season, lots of people use them, and seem happy but also a lot use the cobras and seem happy. I have really loved the cobras, so far not too many complaints.

 

Thanks Dane for your ideas on how to fix the bolt problem....

 

 

[MickVB]

Dane,

 

Thx for the feedback and link. I already read that one; I was interested in getting some of the cc thoughts. I thought I'd get some feedback from you.... You be d'man when it comes to knowledge on gear.

I have a set of NEW Cobra's and can return them for a full refund, if I want to change tools. My thoughts were keep the Cobra's for alpine and ice routes and get a set of Nomic's or, after reading your thoughts, a set of Ergo's, for the mixed and steep ice. I just need to make a decision I'm planning on going to Canmore next weekend.... Whatdoyouthink?

 

Again, thx!

Mick

[Dane]

Jon (in the UKC article) has climbed a lot of serious alpine ice and mixed. More than most. His partner Will Simm (with a similar resume) has been using Cobras for a couple of seasons. And he does just fine on them. But Will mentioned he would rather have Nomics and was lusting over my Ergos the other night.

 

Cobra is a good all mtn axe is the general consensus. I've used them myself. Decent tool that can easily climb harder stuff than I ever will.

 

New Nomics and Ergos will be worth the wait.

 

Tools are so good these days all of them will climb if you are up to the task...just some climb better than others.

 

Weight? These are the actual weights.

 

Petzl Nomic with mixed pick/weight 1# 6.8oz / 648g..less pick weights is 1#6oz or 616g. CT hammer is another 30g and much more user friendly than the mini BD hammer.

 

Black Diamond Cobra or 1 lb 5 oz (mini hammer) / 600g

 

Apples to apples here? hammer to hammmer/ 646g Nomic or 600g on the Cobra...less than 2oz.

 

 

[MickVB]

Dane,

 

Thanks again for taking the time and your expert feedback; I want you to know I appreciated it.

 

Thx,

 

Mick

[Dane]

Thanks Mick. Here is a new one for me. I had only seen Petzl picks bent from dry tool indoors with big boys doing figure 4s on the last inch of so of the pick.

 

No longer the case. I bent a Nomic pick a few days ago climbing mixed here I've never seen these kinds of conditions, rock hard ice, rocks in the ice and lost of dry tooling on any think that will hold a pick. It eats picks like a grinder. Any pick.

 

At some point how great your technical tool is doesn't matter in this stuff. (pure water ice is different) May be just how long the head and shaft will last and how easy it is to change picks is more important. Now I see why there is a 3 year warrenty on the Nomic

[Gunkiemike]

 

A pain he discovered on the new Fusions is that the bolt loosens after every couple of swings...Frustrating!!! His old Fusions don't have the problem, they have 2 screws.

 

There's only 1 bolt holding the pick on the old Fusions. Same as every other BD ice tool for the last 10+ years.

[icmtns]

Typo in the translation (Yes, Old Fusions have 1 same as new) My partner couldn't figure out the why the loosening (he has both pairs Old and New, and hasn't had the problem with the old ones)

 

Wondering if perhaps a better model is two bolts, as in the photo of the Petzl?

 

Dane pointed out the issue/solution:

 

Loose pick bolts on the Fusion have been a reoccuring problem since day one. Replace the chromed bolts with the original Cobra black oxided bolts helps.

 

Guessing the old tools don't use the chromed bolts?

 

Thanks again to Dane for knowing how to fix and providing a suggestion. And also cleared up the is it just this NEW one set? or is it a many NEW set issue?.

 

 

 

 

 

[Dane]

 

Right on. The chrome bolts are new and done for cosmetics. Generally not what hard chrome is used for in the metal industry. But not unheard of either as long as you know the down sides like hydrogen embrittlement and added lubricity. Bolts need to stretch to work. Any engine builder knows how head bolts work.

 

 

There's only 1 bolt holding the pick on the old Fusions. Same as every other BD ice tool for the last 10+ years.

 

Ya sorta, but not really. Obviously, as a totally different pick head interface bewteen tools. Jessica had it right the first time. One bolt instead of two.

 

On every other BD tool there ARE essentially two bolts holding the pick on not just one. Think not? Trying pulling the back bolt and climbing on your BD tools. One actually does most of the work but the second supports it. The single bolt interface of the new Fusion is good and easily up to the challenge. The two bolt design is basic over engineering. Which I like in a climbing tool. Add hard chomed bolts (which among other things makes steel "slick") and polished stainless steel to the mix and you have a bolt that can loosen with use. Easy enough to fix or avoid.

[icmtns]

The tools: Both OLD fusion and Cobra have two bolts. One holds the pick directly and one is further back. At first it appears that the pick is only held by 1 bolt.

 

 

I am now looking at the top view of the OLD and NEW Fusion. I can see that the plate that the Bolts are in connect on the OLD, same overall housing. Thus: 2 Bolt system (View of the top of the Cobras is the same as the OLD Fusions)

 

 

I was just reminded that sometimes my COBRAs come a little loose sometimes, slight pick wobble, but not like the looseness of the NEW Fusions. From the view of the OLD fusions, the 2 bolts are holding the pick (via the housing and directly) On the NEW, the single bolt becomes the focal point for the forces/moment, etc... Every swing, every hang all on that 1 bolt.

 

It makes total sense now why there would be a problem!

 

Got it. Thanks Dane!

[Dane]

No worries. Fun engineering questions? Add up the surface area of the single bolt plate on the new Fusion and compare it to the surface area of the side plate for the old Fusion. You then stop at the back of the plate instead of the back of the blade as in the old design. Obvious the surface area has changed by a fair percentage. Then imagine how much more is required of the single bolt in that design.