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From climbingwashington.com/routeinfo: "Some controversy about Cunning Stunt (5.10d) ***, a popular climb in The Country area. This route was recently retrobolted with permission of the first-ascent party, but nevertheless was chopped last summer. After retrobolting and cleaning, the route became very popular; it may still be led on gear without the bolts. Hopefully this won't degenerate into a bolt war. (11/16/2000)"

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rumor has it that alllll the gear is there, so bolts were not needed. but that is the rumor. and that rumor climbs real hard!

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Maybe to get the first acent on a remote

climb, but that area gets alot of traffic.

Needless to say someone could get hurt.

 

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I'm sure somebody would love to see bolts added to the upper crack pitches of Outerspace....sure would be safer, and that area sees a lot of traffic. In fact, with bolts we could increase the traffic, and wouldn't that be Jim Dandy? How about a gondola up the Disappointment Cleaver? Anybody object?

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Good one pope. I agree,don't be putting up any unnecessary bolts . There are plenty of bolted routes in the state to do without having to change or damage trad routes.

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The question of bolts being necessary or not is up to the first ascent party. They apparently gave permission. If we apply ethics like that one (1st ascentionist gets last word) selectively all ethics will lose meaning.

<donning helmet> shocked.gif

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Another great topic on bolting wars. I've climbed Cunning Stunt (on bolts) many times and think the route is awesome. Would I climb it without bolts? We'll see this summer. I have much respect for the first ascentionist. It was by far a very bold lead. Although I am not a bolt fan by no means, I think it is OK for that climb to be bolted. Especially since the first ascentionist gave permission. Without the bolts, I don't think the climb would see much traffic and go to waste. Many people would not be able experience and enjoy the climb.

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belayed little mike up cunning stunt yesterday. apprently all the gear was there as it looked like mike made himself a nice prom dress with the way he sewed it up. tongue.gif

but really it is a proud lead on gear. after i tr'd (i don't want to die.)

we agreed that it would be a different climb with bolts. being able to climb cunning stunt with gear is artwork, though only rated 10d the gear placments requires a confident and skilled climber. just because we can climb hard does not necesarily mean we should. this is where i PERSONAL think that the new breed of gyms climbers first, real rock second is starting show. people have the ability to climb at these grades, but probably do not have the skill or knowledge. outside of perfect cragging these skills are a must. we can never have them completly honed, but we can always practice....practice....practice.

there are lots of climb at index that are safe leads, in my PERSONAL opinion lets leave a little boldness. mike needs something to do. if you want a good 10d lead with bolts there are several other worthy lines at the country.

[This message has been edited by erik (edited 02-27-2001).]

[This message has been edited by erik (edited 02-27-2001).]

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Right on, man. Let's have a few natural climbs for those of us who would like to escape all of the engineering and controlled experiences of our daily existence. By the way, traditional bolting ethics dictate that when the first ascent party believes a bolt is NOT necessary, future parties should respect their decision and avoid adding bolts. When numerous climbers have led a pitch which requires guts, skill and determination (for both success and survival), I don't think the first ascent party (or anybody else) has the right to add or permit additional bolts.

I didn't chop Stunning Cu..pardon me, Cunning Stunt, and I don't know who did, but I think the guy deserves a slap on the back.

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whatever...............................

[This message has been edited by erik (edited 02-27-2001).]

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