help with skins

[climbnsparky]

im getting my first set of backcountry skis soon and have a few questions on skins.

i have been looking at the black diamonds what the differences/benefits between the ascension and the glidelites?

also what the differences between the different attachments. clip fix, sts, standard and the customs. i read that bd was making specific skins for bd skis.

 

these will be used on a pair of bd verdicts with free rides.

thanks from the n00b

[Couloir]

I use the Ascentions STS. The clip on the end on one of them kept falling off...so much that I've lost it completely. The skin doesn't come off, but the strap flaps around.

 

My Scratch BCs don't have a way of securing the clip. That would be really helpful since it always seems to eventually slid off.

 

I'm also a little frustrated with the "custom cut" idea. I spent a lot of time doing just that. They fit perfectly when I started out. The problem comes when you take them on and off in the field. Invariably, they don't go back on the way you fit them. It's usually really windy, cold, or the wind has blown sand all over the bottoms of the skins. It seems like the "custom" idea is silly. I'm almost thinking Old's-cool and going with the straight strip that goes down the base.

 

Not to be misconstrued, I love these skins, I'm just wondering what real advancements have been made over the years to ask $130 for them. Perhaps REAL seal-skins are cheaper!

[pindude]

I've used Ascension skins since before they were bought up by BD, and if I needed a new pair, wouldn't hesitate to purchase them again. Now on my 4th Ascension set, put on a pair of Verdicts beginning last season. Before Ascension, I used several including some actual mohair (can't remember manuf'er), Pomocas, and Voile. Regarding skins, don't compromise: you'll get more mileage for your buck and have less worries and frustrations if you go with the best. The Ascension ClipFix is the shit; I wouldn't even consider the GlideLite or a different tip/tail attachment.

 

Couloir, I'm not sure what problems you could be having with your own "custom cut." I've custom cut/trimmed each of my pair of Ascensions, and have had -zero- problems with fit. Wall-to-wall, with just your metal edges exposed, is definitely the way to go for best performance.

 

To trim your skins, it should go without saying you want to be very careful, yet deliberate. Start with your skis in your workbench vises and the new, untrimmed skins attached to the bases. I normally use a utility knife with a brand-new, sharp blade, cutting along the outside of the metal edge of the ski I'm fitting the skin to. After cutting one side, I reposition the skin to cut the opposite edge in the same way. BD skins also come with trimming instructions.

 

If you're a Sparky, then you're good with tools and you'll have no problem. An even better source of backcountry info are the good folks at turns-all-year.com.

 

Hmm, Verdicts, Free Rides, and forecasts for a good winter. You'll be having a great time this ski season, I'm sure.

[Couloir]

Thanks Pindude. As I said, Im very happy with the Ascensions in terms of performance on the ground. Perhaps my problem is more with the way I cut them. I did do it with a utility knife but I may not have done a precise enough job. Sometimes after I take them off on the mountain and the put them back on, I have the feeling I'm putting them on the wrong ski. I think if I did this more often (or even for a living) I would have better results. This is only the 3rd pair of skins over many years that I have had to actually fit on my skis. It may be a practice thing.

 

This has nothing to do at all with the Ascensions, or BD for that matter. I'm just saying.

[pindude]

Dunno, but it could be you have to re-trim your skins. I certainly haven't perfectly cut my skins each time. Also, I've had skins change in length depending on changes in temperature/sunlight (yes, I'm still talking Ascension skins ) such that I might have to reposition the length of the skin at the tip-fix, but don't know that how would change the width much. I can see an issue with shrinkage/lengthening of skins perhaps with skis that are way shaped or asymmetrical. Um, I'd better stop typing and go to bed before I really regret it.

 

Good luck there Couloir.

[climbnsparky]

so it sounds like the ascension sts is the way to go.

how often does the glue need to be applied? they come glued right?

[Couloir]

They come glued. I haven't needed to reglue mine yet. I'm pretty anal about keeping them clean. Make sure you use the backer material that comes with them, It's help keep them in shape and easy to pack.

[pindude]

so it sounds like the ascension sts is the way to go.

No, dude. Again, my strong opinion the Ascension ClipFix (please re-read my first post), not STS. Couloir mentioned problems with STS, and as well I've seen on fellow tourers over the years the STS-type tip/tail fix come off much more readily than the ClipFix.

 

how often does the glue need to be applied? they come glued right?

Glue will need to be re-applied (after stripping the old glue) depending on use and care. Usually not more than 1x every 1-2 years. One of the characteristics that makes Ascension the best skin is their Gold Label glue: it's the only one that should be bought to replace your old glue.

[climbnsparky]

clip fix thats what i ment. thanks for the help guys

[cj001f]

clip fix thats what i ment. thanks for the help guys

 

Go with the STS unless you use one pair of skis in reasonably similar conditions all year. Clipfix require too much fiddling with the skin length to stay fixed if skins stretch/etc.

[snoboy]

I've been happy with STS, or some version of it (like G3) for years. Ascension skins have let me down only a few times, usually when I drop them in the snow or something. I have bought the standard skins in the past, and then a couple of years down the road when the glue starts to weaken, added the tail attachemnets (they are available as kits.)

 

Ditch the bag, and the skin savers, and the paper that they come on - all unnecesary IMO.

 

BD's specific skins are precut for their skis. If you are getting BD skis, then it might be worth the extra $$$ to get the precut skins.

 

Ascension is slightly heavier than Glidelite, otherwise... ??? I find that the skis I buy them for are usually outdated or beat before I need to reglue... that's what you get for being anal about keeping them clean and drying them properly... NOT TOO HOT!

 

 

 

[PaulB]

clip fix thats what i ment. thanks for the help guys

Go with the STS unless you use one pair of skis in reasonably similar conditions all year. Clipfix require too much fiddling with the skin length to stay fixed if skins stretch/etc.

Having used both ClipFix and the STS/G3 style attachment, I'd also recommend the latter for the same reason. When everything is adjusted perfectly, ClipFix is bomber, but most of the time I found it to be a PITA.

 

[climbnsparky]

i ended up ordering the clip fix since they will only be on one set of skis.

 

thanks for the help!!

[pindude]

clip fix thats what i ment. thanks for the help guys

Go with the STS unless you use one pair of skis in reasonably similar conditions all year. Clipfix require too much fiddling with the skin length to stay fixed if skins stretch/etc.

Having used both ClipFix and the STS/G3 style attachment, I'd also recommend the latter for the same reason. When everything is adjusted perfectly, ClipFix is bomber, but most of the time I found it to be a PITA.

 

I haven't had any problems with the ClipFix, and certainly don't have to fiddle with it ("hardest" thing may be to adjust it to the right length, but that's easy), so wonder why you consider it a PITA.

 

Regardless, you have a great set-up there Climbnsparky. Have a great season.

[PaulB]

Having used both ClipFix and the STS/G3 style attachment, I'd also recommend the latter for the same reason. When everything is adjusted perfectly, ClipFix is bomber, but most of the time I found it to be a PITA.

I haven't had any problems with the ClipFix, and certainly don't have to fiddle with it ("hardest" thing may be to adjust it to the right length, but that's easy), so wonder why you consider it a PITA.

I found that on very cold days the skins would shrink enough that the camming action of the ClipFix would put the skins under a lot more tension than necessary. On warmer days when the skins would stretch (especially in wet spring snow) the ClipFix couldn't take up the slack and would annoyingly flap around on the tail of the ski. I was also using one pair of skins with two pairs of skis which, while only 2cm different in length, required adjusting the foldover on the skins so the ClipFix would be tensioned properly.

 

I suppose that none of these are really a big deal, but to me they qualified as a PITA compared to the STS/G3 system which can handle all three situations without having to futz with the foldover. YMMV.

[cj001f]

I suppose that none of these are really a big deal, but to me they qualified as a PITA compared to the STS/G3 system which can handle all three situations without having to futz with the foldover. YMMV.

 

I had the same experience. Need to tighten STS? Adjust the tail hook position. My clipfix were no more durable than my STS and they weigh slightly more.

[EastCoastBastard]

This is kind of a related question - I've got some Ascension STS skins and for the first season, I used the "skin saver" thing to pack them up each time I put them away. No problems, all was cool.

Then, I took them out of the bag as normal and the skin savers stuck to the skins, and basically degraded onto the skin to such a degree that there are bits of skin saver the whole length of the skin. So I stopped using them (there wasn't much of the skin saver left intact - it was literally in taters). It hasn't really affected the stickyness of the glue, it's just a pain in the ass.

 

Has anybody else had this problem with the skin savers?

 

Note: the skins get stored in a closet with little temp. fluctuation, and there was nothing remarkable about the last time I used the skin savers, nor was their a long period of time between uses

[pindude]

I suppose that none of these are really a big deal, but to me they qualified as a PITA compared to the STS/G3 system which can handle all three situations without having to futz with the foldover. YMMV.

 

I had the same experience. Need to tighten STS? Adjust the tail hook position. My clipfix were no more durable than my STS and they weigh slightly more.

Yes, I can see all kinds of issues if you're using one pair of skins for two or more pairs of skis. I use one set skins per one set skis, and find that shrinkage/expansion in re. to temperature is negligible--I don't have to readjust once the length is dialed in. I've had experiences with several touring friends with their STS tailfix constantly coming off or worse, although most often a tailfix coming off is user error by one stepping on their own ski tails.

 

This is kind of a related question - I've got some Ascension STS skins and for the first season, I used the "skin saver" thing to pack them up each time I put them away. No problems, all was cool.

Then, I took them out of the bag as normal and the skin savers stuck to the skins, and basically degraded onto the skin to such a degree that there are bits of skin saver the whole length of the skin. So I stopped using them (there wasn't much of the skin saver left intact - it was literally in taters). It hasn't really affected the stickyness of the glue, it's just a pain in the ass.

 

Has anybody else had this problem with the skin savers?

 

Note: the skins get stored in a closet with little temp. fluctuation, and there was nothing remarkable about the last time I used the skin savers, nor was their a long period of time between uses

I typically use the included skin savers several times until the glue becomes a little less sticky, then I start folding the skins on themselves. Don't quit using the skin savers too quickly: I had a friend with new skins who immediately tossed the skin savers and folded the skins on themselves. When he unfolded them on his first tour, the new, ultra-sticky glue pulled off completely in parts from one skin to the other.