Mt. Fund Aids All-Star Pakistani Women's Climb

[jnut]

 

In response to:

Poster: Muffy_The_Wanker_Sprayer

Subject: Re: Mt. Fund Aids All-Star Pakistani Women's Climb

 

 

Originally Posted By: jnut

Quote:

Will you clarify this for me? Are you saying the women who are being helped in this case are women who are already of privilege and already have options for college, career and freedom?

 

 

first off, privilege, college, career and freedom do not necessarily all go hand in hand - in a place like pakistan especially.

but yes, that is what i am saying (though there will be other women involved as well). we have tons of ideas of where it could go in the future - such as the women training other women, as you mentioned. it is just impossible to tell what will happen after this year. but that is not a good enough reason NOT to proceed with the project.

 

 

 

thank you for the clarification. I wish you all the best of luck and i hope good things come of the project. I do hope there is some kind of follow up to see what kind of effect this program has.

 

 

 

 

 

 

you're welcome (and wow, you let me off easy compared to the rest of the thread!).

believe me, we all have concerns as to where all of this investment is going to lead in the future. you're not alone in pondering it. its really the women participants who will dictate that at the end though.

cheers,

janet

 

[sk]

my intention was never to batter or give anyone a bad time, only to bring up questions and encourge people to think things through before jumping on the "good feeling" band wagon.

[Raindawg]

The KFK clinic we run in Goljung,Nepal is a good example. For about $10,000 a year we provide primary health care to over 7,000 people. That's a small investment per person to bring basic health and public health services to three villages. One can argue all day about helping them versus helping us.

 

I think money is much better spent on programs such as the above than on a mountaineering class/experiment. 7,000 people and three villages are helped, rather than a few handful.

Mountaineering is a luxury. No food, clean water and basic health care: no big expedition fun.

 

I would encourage people, if they wish to support the Mountain Fund, to do so in a way that addresses larger groups of people at their most basic needs, rather than some "All-Star" climbing experiment...and yes it will be an experiment, socially and otherwise, though no doubt well-meant.

 

[sk]

The KFK clinic we run in Goljung,Nepal is a good example. For about $10,000 a year we provide primary health care to over 7,000 people. That's a small investment per person to bring basic health and public health services to three villages. One can argue all day about helping them versus helping us.

 

I think money is much better spent on programs such as the above than on a mountaineering class/experiment. 7,000 people and three villages are helped, rather than a few handful.

Mountaineering is a luxury. No food, clean water and basic health care: no big expedition fun.

 

I would encourage people, if they wish to support the Mountain Fund, to do so in a way that addresses larger groups of people at their most basic needs, rather than some "All-Star" climbing experiment...and yes it will be an experiment, socially and otherwise, though no doubt well-meant.

 

<3 thank you raindog for saying what was in my heart and i could not find the words to say.

[AlpineK]

I think any activity that helps people get out and make money is a good thing. Climbing in that area is popular. If men and women can make money guiding richer people from abroad those people will bring the money back and use it in the community to buy stuff they need which will create more employment in the area.

 

I should add that health care is very important (I know that from recent personal experience), but it isn't the only important part of life; you also have to be able to make a living (once again this is an issue I'm working my way through)

Edited April 29, 2007 by AlpineK

[Dechristo]

I think money is much better spent on programs such as the above than on a mountaineering class/experiment. 7,000 people and three villages are helped, rather than a few handful.

Mountaineering is a luxury. No food, clean water and basic health care: no big expedition fun.

 

The goal of the project is to expose women to the world of climbing and mountaineering. Their experience may lead to careers not previously available to them in a growing tourism industry, in mountain rescue or guiding.

 

Raindawg, by organization priority and chronological accomplishment, your stated concern was addressed first and continues to be supported by this organization. Empowering these Pakistani women is supplemental and secondary to the creation and continuing operation/support of the KFK clinic. However, as stated in the first post of this thread and touched upon by AlpineK, the goal and reason for the Mountain Fund's support of the Pakistani Women's Climb is not "big expedition fun", but the opening of a super-highway of industry, entrepreneurship, and support for women in an environment ripe for such development.

 

That said, it is wholely understandable and good if you support other and specific humanitarian endeavors. It would be wonderful and greatly appreciated if you supplied support earmarked for exclusive use at the KFK clinic.

 

Thanks for your input.

[Raindawg]

And what's the budget for this venture?

[jnut]

The total estimated budget, developed by the Alpine Club of Pakistan who is administrating the camp, is $105,000. More than half of that is assuming that they will have to buy all of the equipment (hardwear, clothing, etc) for participants. We are hoping to minimize that cost by seeking donations of climbing, camping and mountaineering gear. The rest is for normal expedition costs (travel, food, permits, etc.) in addition to the investment to select participants (from dozens of different sources) and administrate the entire program.

The only costs we, the American team, are responsible for are travel expenses to get there ($13,000 total).

[mtnfund]

Thanks for the feedback on this. If you go check out the donation page on my site at Mountain Fund you will see that you can specify how you want your donations spent. There is a specific line item for this climbing camp. Karing for Kids, is in healthcare along with the Mt Everest Foundation clinic at Patale. Our point of view is that we will support any charitable work effort that can be reasonably calculated to improve conditions for people in the mountain regions of the world. In Pakistan the advancement of women, in particular is critical so we have chosen to lend a hand. Our activity in this matter does not detract from projects like Karing for Kids though since it is a seperate financial matter. Some of you would, it seems, like to support the KFK clinic. That would be great as I am nearly out of money for that project right now. So please by all means go to our site and make a donation to healthcare. You can even add a note that you only want the money to go to KFK and we will honor that. We keep 5% of your donation to fund our own electric bill and phone bill. If you want to fund the women's climbing camp there is a special category on that donation page to do so.

 

As a business matter, involving ourselves in the Pakistan project is important for another reason - marketing. We are a very small organization. Though you will see lots of "staff" on our site, they are unpaid volunteers. 90% of the Mountain Fund is myself and David Diaz. We both work full time at it. The budget for the Pakistan climbing camp is greater than we get for all our projects in an entire year. Our 2006 tax return shows we had a total income of $70,000, so we aren't a big player in the Pakistan climbing camp. We do own some tents we are loaning the guides. We were given the tents as a donation by Mountain Hardwear for our charity treks (see or trekking site at Trek4Good ) which is a small thing to do. We are asking for donations but we won't spend KFK clinic money, or any other program money on this camp, the donations will have to come in for the camp.

 

The marketing aspect, sorry, I got off track. Ok, well look at this discussion for instance. There have been around 800 views of it and two of you are at least talking about a possible donation. If we hadn't chosen to back the women's climb we wouldn't be here talking about this and getting some much needed exposure. Savvy? Thanks much and as always ask me anything at all you want to know. Scott

[mtnfund]

PS - I need a volunteer that knows how to program a discussion board too! We have an Invision board we are trying to work out some things with and cannot, so if anyone out there knows how to work the damn thing, let me know please. scott - ps I had better clarify that we are not intending to use our discussion board to compete in any way with the most excellent Cascade Climbers board. It's for a different purpose entirely.

Edited April 30, 2007 by mtnfund

[Raindawg]

"The total estimated budget, developed by the Alpine Club of Pakistan who is administrating the camp, is $105,000."

 

"The KFK clinic we run in Goljung,Nepal is a good example. For about $10,000 a year we provide primary health care to over 7,000 people. That's a small investment per person to bring basic health and public health services to three villages."

 

"Some of you would, it seems, like to support the KFK clinic. That would be great as I am nearly out of money for that project right now."

 

Nearly out of money for a project that provides primary health care to over 7000 people? Perhaps you could find $105,000 that could support that Goljung project for over 10 years or perhaps provide care for 70,000 people this year, rather than raising money for a social experiment teaching a handful of Pakistani women how to become "empowered" through climbing.

 

Speaking of Pakistan, how about our mountain friends still affected by the great earthquake of 2005? Couldn't they use a little more help with that kind of money?

 

Someone had to say it.

[Dechristo]

Have another cup of coffee, Raindawg.

 

Then, re-read Jnut and Scott's posts that you might arrive at a different criticism; one of comprehension.

[Raindawg]

Have another cup of coffee, Raindawg.

 

Then, re-read Jnut and Scott's posts that you might arrive at a different criticism; one of comprehension.

 

I read it the first time, and I reread it just to make you happy and it hasn't change my opinion of the venture no matter who's wasting the money in which quantities. I've spent a good part of my life in "lesser developed" parts of the world, mostly Islamic regions, and understand the situation and much of the cultural dynamics. It's great that your group with its many programs is trying to help with basic survival needs and some economic development. But if you come to a climbing discussion group expecting everyone to high-five you on this particular project, or anything in particular, you might be surprised that not everyone is going to agree with you. You can tolerate diversity of opinion, right?

 

Get some coffee yourself.

[mtnfund]

Dudes and Dudettes.

 

I don't think I can make this clearer. The Pakistan Women's project is not, NOT, competing with the KFK clinic for money. Anyone can choose to donate to either, or both, independantly. You people reading these posts for instance can hop right on over to our site and fork out money for the KFK clinc.

 

Mountain Fund has been the sole support for the KFK clinic, for example for the past two years. We take our committment to them seriously. It will fall to me, individually to put the money in their bank account to pay the bills if no one donates. I do, I have and I always will. Mountain Fund costs me a ton of money to run.(about $35k a year in real cash plus the value of my labor) Although my real estate company pays me a full time wage, I have not done any work there for two years and spend my every waking minute on Mountain Fund. My assistant David is also paid by my real estate company though he does zero work for it. Out of every dollar donated ninety cents goes back out to programs like KFK. I don't see a way to upload my tax return here or I would, I will put it on my own site soon so you can see for yourself. I have never let KFK run out of money and I never will. I will pay the bill myself, from my own money. But again, money donated to KFK does not get diverted to the Pakistan project. Only money donated for that purpose goes to it. So, if you are worried about the KFK clinic not having money, go now and donate. Get involved, stay involved and take some ownership of it. But please stop making this an either/or discussion as it is not. Some people will decide to support KFK and their money will go to KFK. Others will want to support the Pakistan women's climb and that is where their money will go. Some will discuss it to death and never donate a dime anyway, so what's the point of that?

 

Go figure this one, if you really have to have an either/or sort of discussion. The Mountain Fund helps a bunch of small projects like KFK all around the world. Only 5% of our income goes to pay our bills (which I assure you are more than that) We took in a whopping $70k last year, our second year of operation - that's right we are only 2 years old and kickin butt around the world. The top two outdoor charities (hint, both start with the letter A) take in over a million a year! (EACH) At a minimum, 15% of their money is overhead expense (could be more, accounting is tricky business) The admin expense is about double what we take in. Do I have a point, yes, but I have to be careful how I make it. You can make up your own minds about the work of other organizations as compared to Mountain Fund. We help the poorest, in the poorest countries, we do it with almost no money and we do it in the name of the outdoor enthusiasts of the US, we represent you. We believe 100% that if we are going to climb in these countries we simply have to give back to the people that live there. If you have been to any of the places we work and don't think we should support local organizations who are helping local people, I'd really love to hear why you feel that way.

Edited April 30, 2007 by mtnfund

[Raindawg]

We help the poorest, in the poorest countries...

 

Most of the participants will actually be college students from Islamabad. It will be a bit of a 'top down' approach this year, as the students families must support their going...

 

O.K.........

 

 

The Pakistan Women's project is not, NOT, competing with the KFK clinic for money. Anyone can choose to donate to either, or both, independantly. You people reading these posts for instance can hop right on over to our site and fork out money for the KFK clinic.

 

I encourage the folks reading this with a little spare change to contribute some funds to the clinic, but the Pakistani empowerment camping trip speaks for itself.

[jnut]

First, I want to thank Scott and the Mountain Fund for their tireless effort in helping mountain communities. He has shown interest and passion for this project - in addition to the dozens of others Mountain Fund works with - from the beginning.

To clarify: Not a penny is being sought for the operating expenses of the camp. I shared the approximate budget because you asked. The Pakistan organizers have taken responsibility for ALL expenses, including the guides' expenses while in country. We are there as their guests and this is their project.

All that we are seeking support for is travel expenses for the volunteer guides to get to Pakistan. That is all.

This camp may lead to incredible new opportunities and possibilities for the women participants, for future projects with our two countries, etc. but it also may not. Regardless, just pursuing the project is breaking taboos and making headway in a country with a vastly different social system than our own.

I would encourage all of you to sign up for the Mountain Fund newsletter, find what you are passionate about and support it, whether it is helping the volunteer guides to get to Pakistan, funding humanitarian projects in the more depressed regions or helping build a school for girls in Pakistan. Or go out and volunteer at a soup kitchen, spend time with an elderly person, plant a tree!

I might add that as important as getting as much bang for the buck as possible is (i am only a climbing bum, after all), I think it is short sighted to make comparisons of importance based only on dollar signs. Where would we all be if that was the case?

Janet

[jnut]

Speaking of Pakistan, how about our mountain friends still affected by the great earthquake of 2005? Couldn't they use a little more help with that kind of money?

On an interesting side note, two of the volunteers for this project, Sallie Dean Schatz and Danika Gilbert, represented the AAC in 2005 doing earthquake relief work in Pakistan. They have been working in various ways to get info out about the needs of people in the areas they visited since their return.

[mtnfund]

 

I encourage the folks reading this with a little spare change to contribute some funds to the clinic, but the Pakistani empowerment camping trip speaks for itself.

 

Thank you so much for that. The KFK clinic donations go under the heading of healthcare, where you can also leave a note specifying only that clinic if you want, although the other clinic in Patale, Nepal is no less a worthy project and no better off financially.

 

Here's the rest the HOT NEEDS List

 

 

• $8,000 to install a lab at the KFK clinic so we can better determine illnesses
  
• $15,000 a year to operate a home for young girls who were indentured servants in Nepal, that amount pays for 15 girls to have a home, go to school and eat.
  
• $5000, one time, to increase the amount of money we can lend to poor families in Cusco to start a small business or exapnd one they have now
  
• $4500 a year to run our Volunteer Center in Nepal that places short term volunteers in schools in Kathmandu
  
• $5000 to run two medical trips, one to take care of 250 school kids in a poor mountain village in Peru, the other to provide medical care to four remote villages in Nepal that can only be reached on foot
  
• $15,000 to build a school in Khane, Pakistan for girls
  
• $1800 to teach 20 women in Nepal skills needed to get jobs in the trekking industry. This is a once a year course taught by Empowering Women of Nepal
  
• $5000 a year to start and run a program to support porters in Peru.
   
  Today's bank balance at Mountain Fund is $491.05 and Karing for Kids has $26.41 just fyi.
   
  thanks for anything any of you do. scott
  

[archenemy]

The KFK clinic we run in Goljung,Nepal is a good example. For about $10,000 a year we provide primary health care to over 7,000 people. That's a small investment per person to bring basic health and public health services to three villages. One can argue all day about helping them versus helping us.

 

I think money is much better spent on programs such as the above than on a mountaineering class/experiment. 7,000 people and three villages are helped, rather than a few handful.

Mountaineering is a luxury. No food, clean water and basic health care: no big expedition fun.

 

I would encourage people, if they wish to support the Mountain Fund, to do so in a way that addresses larger groups of people at their most basic needs, rather than some "All-Star" climbing experiment...and yes it will be an experiment, socially and otherwise, though no doubt well-meant.

This is not an either/or restricted option.

 

I understand that we all don't live with limitless personal funds, but contributing to one organization one year and a different cause next year is also an option. Or splitting your yearly set-aside 50/50 is an option.

 

Just keeping an open dialogue here...

Edited April 30, 2007 by archenemy

[Thinker]

You guys (and girls) crack me up. Sure, parts of Pakistan are as you imagine, kinda like the bible belt here in the US....but many parts of it are just like where you and I live.

 

I found my Pakistani wife running around the house in this t-shirt tonight. (for those of you who don't know, Karachi is a port in southern Pakistan with beautiful beaches and modern, cosmopolitan society.) She was kind enough to pose for a photo that showed her bare arms and even some of her hair...gasp!

Edited June 20, 2007 by Thinker

[jnut]

well said, in today's world it is impossible to make generalizations.

good news is that 150 women have requested to be nominated for the camp! we do not have the logistics and resources to accept all of them this year, but that interest pretty much ensures the camp will continue it into the future.

we are still in need of boots and crampons to take over there: it is almost impossible to find boots in the correct sizes (under a men's 7) in-country.

more info: http://www.behno.blogspot.com

 

 

cheers,

janet

 

PS thinker: we are trying to think of ways to get pakistani-american women involved for this year or in the future with planning and prep, fundraising and, if possible, guiding. please have your wife contact us via the blog if she is interested.

 

 

 

 

PPS team member Molly Loomis will be giving an informational slideshow on the camp at the Teton Climber's Ranch during the AAC events this coming weekend. Be sure to check it out!