Snow Peak Giga Power Stove

[dan_e]

Purchased this stove as part of my weight reduction for a multi-day trip I took this August. My stove of choice before this was an MSR Whisperlite 600. I wanted something faster, lighter, and more compact. I also considered the MSR Pocket Rocket, which is a bit lighter, but seemed flimsy, especially the leg stands which were connected to the stove with cheap hollow rivets. The quality of the materials and design on the Snow Peak stove are outstanding.

Here's what I found:

Positive: Light (under 4 oz!), sturdy, and compact. Piezo ignitor worked perfectly. Boiled water quickly and did not consume tons of fuel (one 110 g canister lasted me three days).

Negative: None found so far.

I will post any negative results. I may test this for winter use, but I bought it primarily for 3 season use.

Dan E.

[Marty_Johnson]

quote:

---

Originally posted by dane:

Purchased this stove as part of my weight reduction for a multi-day trip I took this August. My stove of choice before this was an MSR Whisperlite 600. I wanted something faster, lighter, and more compact. I also considered the MSR Pocket Rocket, which is a bit lighter, but seemed flimsy, especially the leg stands which were connected to the stove with cheap hollow rivets. The quality of the materials and design on the Snow Peak stove are outstanding.

Here's what I found:

Positive: Light (under 4 oz!), sturdy, and compact. Piezo ignitor worked perfectly. Boiled water quickly and did not consume tons of fuel (one 110 g canister lasted me three days).

Negative: None found so far.

I will post any negative results. I may test this for winter use, but I bought it primarily for 3 season use.

Dan E.

---

 

[Marty_Johnson]

The stove is grat but the self ignition device will brake sonner or later. I got 3trips out of mine before it quit working. At that point I took it back to REI to get it fixed and they replied they could fix it but it would brake again

quote:

---

Originally posted by dane:

Purchased this stove as part of my weight reduction for a multi-day trip I took this August. My stove of choice before this was an MSR Whisperlite 600. I wanted something faster, lighter, and more compact. I also considered the MSR Pocket Rocket, which is a bit lighter, but seemed flimsy, especially the leg stands which were connected to the stove with cheap hollow rivets. The quality of the materials and design on the Snow Peak stove are outstanding.

Here's what I found:

Positive: Light (under 4 oz!), sturdy, and compact. Piezo ignitor worked perfectly. Boiled water quickly and did not consume tons of fuel (one 110 g canister lasted me three days).

Negative: None found so far.

I will post any negative results. I may test this for winter use, but I bought it primarily for 3 season use.

Dan E.

---

 

[verticalturtle]

I agree the thing will break again. Mine has worked off and on and seems worse in the cold and or damp go figure.and I found the performance on mine to go down exponentialy in the cold.

But, if weight is the ultimate issue it is super cool.

Just make sure to bring a light if you bring the stove so you don't look like an when the lighter fails.

vt

[David_Parker]

As gas under pressure escapes a container, rapid cooling occurs. That is why canisters suck in cold weather. In Extreme Alpinism by Twight, he suggests using a closed cell foam pad to help aliviate this problem. Further, you can pound a piece of copper tube flat, and bend it around the bottom of the canister so each end extends up into the flame. This will help heat the canister...but he says this can be dangerous and has a disclaimer for suggesting this! I think in winter, I'd prefer an msr xgk. Hell, according to Twight, you can toss it when you run out of fuel to save weight too!

[Ade]

Mountain Review #7 (March/April 94) had an article on how to make a BOMB (Bloody Outragious Mountain Burner). Pretty straight forward by the looks of it.

[dan_e]

As I stated before and in my opinion this stove should be considered a "3 season" stove.

As for the piezo ignitor, even if it does break it's still a great stove, and besides I would always carry an alternate ignitor, even if I though it would work every time.

Modifiying a high-pressure fuel stove is completely insane, I am surprised Twight has not blown himself up!

Dan E.

[Dru]

Twight blows himself up on a regular basis!

[Terminal_Gravity]

The little wire fix is not insane at all and works very well even in very cold situations. Lots of people do it.

Alternately, a person can put about 1/4 inch of warm water in their pan lid and sit the canister (while operating) in it and the pressure is back to normal. With these two fixes no one should be afraid of using these stoves 4 seasons.

IMO the auto igniter is dumb anyway. A mini Bic ( with or without fuel or the plastic part for that matter) is fool proof, cheaper and lighter.

[Terminal_Gravity]

Dan, I agree with your attitude that "lots of people do it" is not a garauntee of safety. I'm sorry that I punked out by saying that.

The real question is how warm can the liquid fuel be before its vapor pressure reaches the max design pressure of the canister. I have not looked at butane charts nor do I know what those canisters can hold, but I would bet ( my life) that it is way, way above the temperature that you will get from the wire trick. Especially when the ambient temperature is cold which is when you need it.

[Dru]

you can always tape a shake-n-heat chemical handwarmer pad or two to the canister if you are leery of the wire wrap making it explode.

[Beck]

A quick fix- preheat your canister with your headlamp as well in an inside pocket 1/2hour before you're stopping for the night, and get a cute little neoprene muff for it,set it up on a cut up base of foam or light wood. No probs, I'm still carrying whitegas for planned overnight outings, pocketrocket for midday hot cocao or unplanned overnights

[dan_e]

TG,

May be it is safe, but saying "lots of people do it", does not convince me.

I will stick to the white gas stove for winter use.

I still think the piezo starter is a good thing, especially since mine works and I am really only using the stove in the summer. Considering how small and light the stove is, the added weight of the ignitor is insignificant.

Dan E.

[willstrickland]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Terminal Gravity:

The real question is how warm can the liquid fuel be before its vapor pressure reaches the max design pressure of the canister. I have not looked at butane charts nor do I know what those canisters can hold, but I would bet ( my life) that it is way, way above the temperature that you will get from the wire trick.

---

Another factor will be altitude. With lower atmospeheric pressure a canister at the same temperature will have a greater differential pressure. I also don't feel this is a concern. The concern is from the canister exploding, and while we don't know the design strength of the canister I feel confident that it won't fail in an exploding mode. This is why:

1. When the canister is being heated, it is also expelling gas (the stove is burning) which causes it to cool. This offsets the heating a bit.

2. Since the valve is open and the canister is expelling gas, the higher pressure in the cansiter will mean a higher pressure of the expelled gas (this is why you're heating it to begin with) and this would indicate that the failure mode might be at the valve of the canister. Or perhaps the valve is such that the excess pressure would simply leak through the valve system. It would seem that as long as the stove was burning there wouldn't be a realistic way to make the canister build enough pressure, it would just reach some equilibrium and blow off enough excess through the valve to keep it from being dangerous.

I would think that the weak link of the canister would be the valve or the seam at one of the ends. Either way a violent explosion of the cansiter itself is unlikely. The concern in this mode of failure would be ignition of the fuel being expelled.

Where's an ME when you need one? As a CE structural analysis was never my strong point. Give me a dirty environment, or some fluids...then I'm your man.

[Terminal_Gravity]

Well Will,

Thanks for your CE input. I am not a ME but have done a lot of PE work (mainly food processs). If you need heat transfer, boiler HP or pump sizing then I'm your man. It seems that the two of us should be able to put this problem to rest.

The fixes that Beck suggested, I think, would be temporary at best. They may allow enough time on the stove to heat enough water for your ramen but unless the ambient temp is colder than 11°F for pure Iso-Butane (colder for a propane blend), insulating the canister will just make make the fuel freeze faster after it reaches ambient. As Will eluded, it is not the outside temperature that is causing the fuel to freeze it is the heat loss of evaporation and expansion of the gasious fuel that cools the canister. Of course the colder it is outside the less the fuel warms up from the air.

The freezing point of Butane is 31°F, Iso-Butane is 11°f and Propane is -43°F. I could not find any precise studies on the freezing temperature of the blended gas that we get in modern canisters (typically 80% Butane & 20% Propane), but clearly it is between 11 and neg. 43. One interesting fact is that the propane boils off of the blend preferentially so that by the time the fuel in the can is 1/3 it is virtually all butane and will freeze up a lot faster.

Will's inference about the increased pressure from heating the canister increasing the evaporation rate of the fuel and therefore balancing the temperature is correct only to a point. The stoves have an internal regulator of sorts and will only burn fuel at an predetirmined maximum rate.

None of this really addresses the crux of the question. Is the copper wire trick safe? Dan pointed out that "a lot of people do it" is not good enough.

I tried, but failed to find the safe maximum pressure rating of those canisters. Their design criteria are regulated by UL 147B and NFPA 58. Does anyone have access to either of these standards...Will?

After we find the that out it should be simple for a chemist among us to use the equation PV=nRT and solve for "T" to figure how hot the canister can get before it splits a seam.

Sorry about all the Blah Blah Blah

[ 11-08-2001: Message edited by: Terminal Gravity ]

[primate]

I thought I would throw a couple of ideas out.

1) PV=nRT is not likely to model the gas well at high pressures (i.e. if any of the fuel is liquid) as the ideal gas law assumes that interactions between the molecules are negligible.

2) Don't the canisters have pressure relief valves like propane tanks?

[Terminal_Gravity]

Primate, go on about how to find the gas pressure at a given temperature. I'm way to rusty.

I believe that the valve on the canisters acts as a PSV for non use purposes so that they meet DOT standards...but that is just a guess. Attaching the stove will negate the saftey blow off aspect of the valve.