Stephen_Ramsey Posted June 18, 2004 Posted June 18, 2004 (edited) Hi Paul, Good point about cost. It's pretty pricey unless you buy it on sale, and cost-share with your partner. Even then, it's a big initial purchase. But compared with round-trip gas to the hills 45 weekends out of the year, and amortized over the many years the tent will last, it's really in the noise. As far as weight goes, yup, nothing is going to be lighter than the Basic Bivy Sack. But if we're comparing to the Deluxe or something more fully featuerd, the tent weight without poles compares pretty favorably to two bivy sacks. Perhaps my perspective on tents vs. bivy sacks is influenced by the fact that my climbing partner is my spouse! Edited June 18, 2004 by Stephen_Ramsey Quote
cj001f Posted June 18, 2004 Posted June 18, 2004 Besides, my bivy weighs just over a pound. And packs down to a liter. My Betalight packs down to like 1.5 L or so, and weighs 1.5lbs. More comfortable than a bivy in rain/snow/the like. Roomy for a tent inside too. Bivy's are fine for camping in crappy spots (narrow rock, etc), or if you don't really except bad weather, but if the weather turns nasty, something over your head is the way to go. Quote
cracked Posted June 19, 2004 Posted June 19, 2004 Carl, you're in trouble if my new Betalight sucks. I'll test it tomrrow. Quote
snodger Posted June 22, 2004 Posted June 22, 2004 (edited) while screwing off instead ofworking today I saw this at the BD site: http://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/gear/backcountry/lightsabre.php Check out the weight! If it's weather proof it seems like it would be a nice alternative to the 'envelope' style bivys. Now I've seen the ads for all these new EPIC tents and like Joshk wondered about the wisdom of a not quite waterproof tent/bivy. Anyone got anything to say about EPIC tents? And as far as that goes: what about EPIC down bags? Could you get away without a bivy in a snow cave or under a tarp if you had a Feathered Friend's bag? Edited June 22, 2004 by snodger Quote
cracked Posted June 22, 2004 Posted June 22, 2004 PM Stephen Ramsey. He said his Firstlight leaked like a sieve in a hard rainstorm. Quote
cj001f Posted June 22, 2004 Posted June 22, 2004 Carl, you're in trouble if my new Betalight sucks. I'll test it tomrrow. You likey the betalight? Quote
Stephen_Ramsey Posted June 22, 2004 Posted June 22, 2004 (edited) Yeah, the Firstlight was kinda leaky. It didn't bother my partner as much as it bothered me; she still thinks it's a great tent, for carry-overs. I'm gonna give it another chance. I slathered a lot of seam sealant on it, and I'm hoping to take it up Mount Baker soon. Edited June 22, 2004 by Stephen_Ramsey Quote
cracked Posted June 22, 2004 Posted June 22, 2004 Carl, you're in trouble if my new Betalight sucks. I'll test it tomrrow. You likey the betalight? Best $159 I've spent, if that hour of rain and hail is any indicator. And for 16oz (sans stakes) the thing is HUGE. Easily fit two big people and their gear. Quote
johndavidjr Posted June 23, 2004 Posted June 23, 2004 I've used an MSR job similar to Betalight for a half-dozen trips this past winter & spring, & find it's really terrific (Door design of Betalight is better in snow, probably, & BL is much lighter). Am wondering how the general design works for keeping out bugs (with door shut). Anybody have experience or opinion? Quote
marylou Posted June 23, 2004 Posted June 23, 2004 I have a Betalight too. Slept like a baby and dry as a bone in all-night rain and snow about a month ago in it. I only have a few nights in it so far, but I love it. Now I gotta get me a bivi sack to use in it for when the weather is inclement. Quote
johndavidjr Posted June 23, 2004 Posted June 23, 2004 Yeah I'm with you. With 2 rigid poles, at least eight staking points and snow banked around edges, it's gotta be as wind-stable as ANY tent on the market. Without the snow it's nearly as stable, but wind creeps in. I've used rocks with some success as alternate to snow, but my MSR Twin Peaks (discontinued?) does have heavier fabric than BL. But whaddabout bugs? Seems like biters might not figure out that they'd have to go down to ground level to get inside, but I fear that's wishful thinking... Quote
marylou Posted June 23, 2004 Posted June 23, 2004 It's also mighty nice if you can tie it up between trees, that gets rid of the interior poles. Sure, it's going to be draftier than a tent, but it's not a tent,. it's a tarp. The current Twin Peaks is made of sil/pu versus the Betalight, which is sil/sil. The Betalight is a bit lighter and ten bucks cheaper. I think you are dreaming about not having a bug problem with a shelter like this. I plan to only use my Betalight in non-bug conditions. Quote
cj001f Posted June 23, 2004 Posted June 23, 2004 I think you are dreaming about not having a bug problem with a shelter like this. I plan to only use my Betalight in non-bug conditions. Anyone tried a Beta Bug? It's a bit Porky w/Betalight as a fly, but looks like it would provide bug free sleeping with excellent ventilation. Quote
fern Posted June 23, 2004 Posted June 23, 2004 But whaddabout bugs? Seems like biters might not figure out that they'd have to go down to ground level to get inside, but I fear that's wishful thinking... with a Megamid I have had reasonable bug avoidance success by 1)pitch it right down tight to the ground. 2)don't open the door or go into it or even LOOK at the tent until 0.067secs before you are ready to go to bed. Then go to bed really quickly .... and try not to breathe too much. following these steps I have had no worse bug problems than in a normal tent where the door is opened and closed a few times in the evening while fiddling and cooking and reading and peeing and such. Quote
marylou Posted June 23, 2004 Posted June 23, 2004 Anyone tried a Beta Bug? It's a bit Porky w/Betalight as a fly, but looks like it would provide bug free sleeping with excellent ventilation. I thought about that....but then, I have a couple of tents already. Quote
johndavidjr Posted June 23, 2004 Posted June 23, 2004 Re. Beta bug, looks sorta involved, & a bit heavy & tent might be as good a solution...though I really like the MSR super-size version of TP/BL, with or without netting.. Re post above on bugs & Mega, this is actually interesting & somewhat encouraging....Your mention of bugs' CO2 attraction makes me now think I'm wrong about theory of mosquitos not flying down to ground to get in... perhaps one could just build smudge fire or take lots of cigars.... Smear mess of bug dope around ground? Quote
cj001f Posted June 23, 2004 Posted June 23, 2004 Re. Beta bug, looks sorta involved, & a bit heavy & tent might be as good a solution The attraction would be the entirely mesh upper - better ventilation than just about every tent out there. Quote
marylou Posted June 23, 2004 Posted June 23, 2004 Yeah, but under a silnylon tarp.....plus the beta bug is not all that light weight. Quote
cj001f Posted June 23, 2004 Posted June 23, 2004 Yeah, but under a silnylon tarp.....plus the beta bug is not all that light weight. If it's not raining leave the tarp off - that's the attraction, a roomy shelter with bug protection and excellent ventilation w/ fly off. 2lbs for the Bug isn't light, but at 3.5 total w/tarp, it's not bad - and roomier than the clip flashlight. Quote
russ Posted June 23, 2004 Posted June 23, 2004 I'm definitely a light weight weenie. First with a beta light which I've sat out about a 4 hr rain storm and had a couple of drops come thru - seam sealed after that and I'm confident it will hold up well. If you don't pitch it tight and very close to the ground it can be pretty noisy in the wind. I'm learning a little each time I use it. Bought the Beta bug for my wife - haven't used it, but the weight is 1lb 15 oz on my scale (versus 1 lb 5 oz for the Beta Light). Just returned my Marmot Swallow (8 lbs 8 oz) to "Guess Where" for a full price refund and smacked the dollars down for a BD Lighthouse. Came in the mail today, seam seal tomorrow, try soon. I somewhat discount previous leaking comment experiences when they said they didn't seam seal - why do you think BD makes a point of sending the sealer & syringe??? Had I known I would get a Lighthouse, I wouldn't have bought the Beta Bug last year... Beta Light + Beta Bug = 3 lbs 4 Lighthouse = 3 lbs 3 oz Anyone want a good deal on a Beta Bug??? Quote
johndavidjr Posted June 23, 2004 Posted June 23, 2004 Yeah now that combo doesn't seem too heavy. And I'll beat our dead horse some more, and repeat that with snow banked-up, the Beta design is as bomber as it gets for wind. (They used Mega-Beta configuration for all early polar exploration.) I remember my old 2-pole dome on the beach once bouncing around absurdly in a heavy breeze. Very unpleasant without guylines. I suppose a free-standing would be easier to deal with in dig-out situations, but that's something I've never dealt with. Also in winter, I've never seen it quantified but in my experience a full-fly tent is warmer than otherwise. But can't beat floorless convenience in bitter cold, of dumping pee bottles in snow, inside the tent (melts hole, and then freezes), spilling beer cans, etc. However, am now leaning back toward taking my miserable Sierra Designs Divine Light for summer alpine bugs. The think is much like a bivvy sack (thread topic) except that it has a 30-inch high arch (SD Flashlight shape) placed diagonally across head of tent, resulting in a relatively wide doorway, and small hoop at rear. Advertised (formerly) at 20 sq.ft and 2.5 pnds. Nice idea, but I think Skoog or somebody, referred to it as a toothpaste tube, in a description of a Ptarmigan ski traverse, and said the thing almost contributed to death by hypothermia due to condensation I'd suppose. I've used it plenty but it has driven me nuts plenty, due to small size. ______ Quote
Beck Posted June 23, 2004 Posted June 23, 2004 All you need for bugs is a mesh head net, weighs a couple of ounces. It's not like there are Alaskan horseflies and mosquitos swarming around here in the Alpine.... I put a couple of coffee can sized tube vents in each peak of my beta to aid in ventilation and to allow safer cooking in winter. The advantage to a floorless in winter is you can dig it out to standup height, then have a dancing party. Quote
cj001f Posted June 23, 2004 Posted June 23, 2004 All you need for bugs is a mesh head net, weighs a couple of ounces. It's not like there are Alaskan horseflies and mosquitos swarming around here in the Alpine.... So I'm hallucinating the 100 black flies I killed on the Challenger approach? Or the cloud of mosquitos in the Oly's? Quote
Stephen_Ramsey Posted June 23, 2004 Posted June 23, 2004 (edited) ... BD Lighthouse. Came in the mail today, seam seal tomorrow, try soon. I somewhat discount previous leaking comment experiences when they said they didn't seam seal - why do you think BD makes a point of sending the sealer & syringe??? You can discount any posts you like, but just to be clear, I fully seam-sealed my Firstlight before using it, and yes, I know how to apply it. It just wasn't enough to keep the thing from leaking. YMMV. Edited June 23, 2004 by Stephen_Ramsey Quote
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