mountain jumper Posted December 18, 2006 Posted December 18, 2006 (edited) Lambone, Thanks for your input- I just walked by to check the latest. I hope this continues tomarrow with input from the people "in the know" and you are right, I hope mattp does clean this up! I want to stay informed on facts and not hear say. If there are infact posts from SAR folks I want to read them as they come in. If there are posts from people who actually know the mountain, I want to read them. To all who can not contribute in a knowledgable and informative manner, just set back and observe, then go else where on a new or other thread to voice your opinions. Thank you Edited December 18, 2006 by mountain jumper
Lambone Posted December 18, 2006 Posted December 18, 2006 mountain jumper, search for "cluck's" post a few pages back. he has posted the only firsthand info today, after coming down off the mountain. Your post, Lambone, was the first insulting post. You were baiting, when you said: "so as soon as this is over are all you people going to go away?" Lambone yeah well, sorry about that...I think we were all a bit upset earlier today...not one of my better days.
GrantsPassed Posted December 18, 2006 Posted December 18, 2006 Good observation about locked-airfares, etc. ... perhaps it's easy to get lulled into a sense of complacency if one hasn't had any previous close calls while climbing. Like any drug, adrenaline requires a continual increase in dosage to achieve the high. A fit 48-year-old probably is fighting midlife crisis as well, which only clouds his judgement further. 2 snowcaves ... we'll never know why.
Lambone Posted December 18, 2006 Posted December 18, 2006 perhaps it's easy to get lulled into a sense of complacency if one hasn't had any previous close calls while climbing. a valid theory. it has happened to me, I can tell you that much. but your assumtion about Kelly James is uncalled for and extremely disrespectful. I am sure the rescuers have been investigating the scene and will have the best indication of why there were two snowcaves dug. my guess is he tried to self rescue in the storm but didn't make it far in the brutal conditions and dug in again. no one is to blame for underestimating the weather. it has happened to the best of all mountain climbers. some, unfortunately are not so lucky. ... we'll never know why. and by the way, I think we will know why once they bring the other two home tommorow.
Lyn Posted December 18, 2006 Posted December 18, 2006 ...perhaps it's easy to get lulled into a sense of complacency if one hasn't had any previous close calls while climbing. Mr. James and Mr. Hall had been in trouble before. On their first climb together, they got caught in a white-out blizzard for five days atop Alaska's Mount McKinley, the highest peak in North America. After the storm broke, they scaled the mountain's 20,320-foot summit. Mr. James has been climbing mountains for 25 years.
GrantsPassed Posted December 18, 2006 Posted December 18, 2006 I only hope the other 2 can miraculously be brought home alive to explain ... as for my "assumptions" (or more accurately, my observations) being "uncalled for", nothing I mentioned should be construed as being unforgivable on the part of Mr. James. He sought his "rush" (as so many climbers call it) and overstepped his margin for error due to the factors already mentioned. I'm sure his family's love for him will never diminish, though it may be hard for some to understand the priorities one places on the need for adventure vs. the responsibility to family.
GrantsPassed Posted December 18, 2006 Posted December 18, 2006 Thanks for elaborating, Lyn. I'm sure THAT ordeal made them better climbers. How long ago was that?? Physical skills being what they are as we age, I only hope it gives others in his age group pause before testing their limits with so much at stake.
Lyn Posted December 18, 2006 Posted December 18, 2006 The article did not give a date: http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/localnews/stories/121606dnmetclimbers.11dd082b.html
LHwildcats76 Posted December 18, 2006 Posted December 18, 2006 2 snowcaves ... we'll never know why. If the two returned to find KJ deceased, that would be a reason to build the man his own cave(?). Perhaps tracks were found between the two caves, but no one has reported it yet.
smprfi Posted December 18, 2006 Posted December 18, 2006 It was 16 days back in '76. The last 13 were in one snowcave. Yep, the last snow cave was the 6th or 7th they dug. I only quoted a part of the article (but gave the link). A great story - 3 teenagers, leave their map in the car, get lost, dig 6 or 7 snow caves, two fall into crevasses & rescue themselves, on Hood 16 days and were never afraid. They only dug 3 caves, the last of which had a tunnel that was 45 feet long by the time the storm was over. And they were VERY afraid.
truckinusa Posted December 18, 2006 Posted December 18, 2006 Aren't there large holes they of fallen into pretty easily? With the wind being so high maybe they slid a few thousand feet down the mountain? I've never been up this mountain so... I was also wondering if they would have been carrying any large quantity of fuel. Did the dead climber have a stove or any fuel?
LHwildcats76 Posted December 18, 2006 Posted December 18, 2006 Perhaps the rescuers are loosely using the word 'cave' when nothing was actually deliberately dug out at the second location, and for lack of a more appropriate way to describe right now how they found him. I haven't heard of any equipment being found inside a 2nd dug out cave.
LHwildcats76 Posted December 18, 2006 Posted December 18, 2006 You don't have to be tired or cold anymore. You are in a much better and safer place now. An eternal home. And we shall see you soon enough. You were great.
DocRock Posted December 18, 2006 Posted December 18, 2006 I just wanted to say that I was raised by a WWII 10th Mt. Div. vet and from the time I could walk we were trained in climbing, skiing, tracking and survival. There are no guarantees in anything in life, certainly no guarantees when it comes to nature. After a lifetime of training, one can never be TOO prepared. We, none of us, can judge the reasons behind the climb or any decisions these guys made, we weren't there. I pray for their families and the safe return of 2 climbers.
Makalu7 Posted December 18, 2006 Posted December 18, 2006 Hi...well I'm not comfortable starting this post with an "appeal to authority", but maybe just a snippet is called for. I've climbed Hood and many of the other Cascade Range stratovolcanoes in winter, summitted Hood 26 times including Cooper Spur and the Elliot Glacier headwall...and after reading the article in the Dallas, TX news that referred to one of the Crag Rats being the youngest person on record to do Hood I had to smile a bit because I first climbed it when I was 7. I'm an old man now and my climbing days are long behind me but it was my sole passion for many decades. One time I was stranded at 11000' on the Emmons-Winthrop in a blizzard in February for 3 days and I want to give my two cents worth here in the hopes that it will save lives in the future. Cent #1 Be flexible. If you want to bag a difficult route above timberline wait for optimum weather conditions. If you must climb at a set date then be flexible enough to pick an easier route. Nasty weather can make even the "guide routes" a challenge for the most experienced and best equipped. Cent #2 Prepare for the worst. When we climbed in winter with iffy weather forecasts we always packed a 5-7 day supply of food and fuel and a deck of cards and we expected to use it. If you can't carry the extra 15-20 pounds that this requires up the chosen route then don't go. The mountain will wait. I didn't always follow my own advice to the letter back then and that's what led to the blizzard event. I was very fortunate to have survived that and learn somethings from it and gained a whole new level of respect for the power of Mother Nature. My heart goes out to the friends and family of those who aren't as fortunate. Peace.
Ruedi Posted December 18, 2006 Posted December 18, 2006 Welcome to the Cascade Climbers Forum Ed. What Makalu7 just said needs to be repeated and broadcast to all who venture into the wilderness over and over. Thank you for your post from I'm sure lots of personal responsibility and anziety while spending most of your life climbing. If you're not Ed Viesturs then you have learned everything he has whild attaining and acomplishing all the the climbing goals we all have. Thanks again and this needs to be repeated over and over. Prayers to the families and let them know that we are here in support.
jfmctlaw Posted December 18, 2006 Posted December 18, 2006 One time I was stranded at 11000' on the Emmons-Winthrop in a blizzard in February for 3 days and I want to give my two cents worth here in the hopes that it will save lives in the future. I didn't always follow my own advice to the letter back then and that's what led to the blizzard event. Well said. I for one appreciate the comments of those who have more experience and wisdom so that I may keep this in mind next time I go above tree line with my crew. I also hope that this thread stays open and the mods just clean it up/ and or warn the folks who are off topic. Take a deep breath, resist the temptation to flame, put your best foot forward here. I know you can do it.
randita Posted December 18, 2006 Posted December 18, 2006 Aren't there large holes they of fallen into pretty easily? With the wind being so high maybe they slid a few thousand feet down the mountain? I've never been up this mountain so... I was also wondering if they would have been carrying any large quantity of fuel. Did the dead climber have a stove or any fuel? There are lots of questions and few answers at this point. One of the notes left by the three said they were carrying fuel, but the amount was not specified.
pacosgal Posted December 18, 2006 Posted December 18, 2006 Oregonlive, has an article this morning that mentions "Based on what searchers found Sunday, Wampler said, two climbers may have descended the east side of the mountain, which is not a logical route." This is the first I've heard of them possibly trying to go down the east side. What do some of you climbers from the Mt. Hood area think of this possiblilty? From previous posts I had thought this wasn't a feasible option for descent? http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/?/base/news/1166417703306970.xml&coll=7
jfmctlaw Posted December 18, 2006 Posted December 18, 2006 Fox reporter Adam Housely at Mt. Hood reporting. Chinook will fly this am to retrieve body. Families have requested that the name not be released until they have a chance to positively ID deceased.
jfmctlaw Posted December 18, 2006 Posted December 18, 2006 Oregonian now reports: Monday, December 18, 2006 Report: Family says body found was missing climber Kelly James See Photo The Associated Press is reporting that a body found in a snow cave on Mount Hood by searchers looking for three missing climbers is the same climber who placed a distress call to relatives a little more than a week ago, a person close to the family said Monday. Jessica Nunez, who is close to the family of missing climber Kelly James and has been acting as a spokeswoman, said the body is that of Kelly James, 48. She said the information comes from James’ family, and that she had talked to them.
jfmctlaw Posted December 18, 2006 Posted December 18, 2006 A news conference is planned for 9:00am PT today.
Rhino's Rock Posted December 18, 2006 Posted December 18, 2006 I'm not a climber, so sorry if my posting offends. I have benefitted from your formum and have appreciated all views. Could someone inform where Abuelo Pass (or Barlow Trail)((not sure of spellings) is located from the summit? God bless the seachers, Brian and Nikko. Kelly, no pain, no sorrow, when you sit at the right hand of our Lord on the "highest summit".
Ruedi Posted December 18, 2006 Posted December 18, 2006 http://www.johann-sandra.com/mountaindir.htm You might find it here. Under Mt Hood their is a choice for routes.
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