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cj001f

Fee Demo & Mt Rainier

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The money's going to good use, really it is(from the NPS Morning Report):

Mount Rainier NP (WA) - Fee Demo Funds New Bulletin Board Materials

The Division of Interpretation has completed a fee demonstration

project to upgrade bulletin board postings throughout the park. Visual

information specialist Patti Wold developed a layout to give all park

bulletin boards a consistent look. Use of the Unigrid design system

identifies Mount Rainier with the NPS and other national parks in the

system, consistent with "Message Project" guidelines. The new

materials address parkwide and location-specific information and were

developed with input from area staff. The new postings include a Mount

Rainier NP banner with the NPS mission statement, a general

information sign, a map of the park, several campground maps, several

area trail maps, a campground regulation sign, and visitor services

guides for the four main areas of the park. All were printed on a

plastic weather resistant material called Polydura available through

J. L. Darling Corporation of Tacoma, Washington (sole source). [Maria

Gillett, CI, MORA]

 

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I wonder what it would take to get them to spend a little on the public hut at Camp Muir. The place is an embarasment.

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The Fee Demo does not seem like a legit way to fund public lands. climbers are taking it in the backdoor to fund projects initiated by the ARC (american recreational cooalition), creating paved roads and easy axcess for motorized vehicles. The public lands are in desparate need of funds, but is this really legitimate means of taxation? the govt is accepting money from the ARC, influencing legislation in support of motorized access, AND they are not putting adequate funding into park maint. To whose benifit are these funds going?

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I do wonder which fees these programs at Mount Rainier are coming from. In regards to other NORTHWEST FORESTS PARK PASS funded projects, I will HAVE to state the obvious- climbers are the minority among the fee payers. The forest service has funded a lot of trail maintence and trail building, unfortunately, there's going to be a lot more RV's than climbers putting out an organized voice for their needs in the mountains. What do you all want, a trail to you favorite crag? I say keep some spots hard to get to and underdeveloped- like a lot of the Glacier Peak wilderness.

 

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It’s my understanding that the fee demo program isn’t intended for things like Camp Muir, that’s what the summit fees are for. I had thought the fee demo program was intended for things like trail maintenance in national forests. The National parks have separate budgets, and they have things like entrance fees (how do you keep track of all these fees!?) as well as a small cut from the federal budget. That’s what our fearless leader was going on about down in Yosemite last week.

Hey - maybe the fee demo program has so much money they’re sharing!

IMHO, the year the started the fee demo program, I was on some easy-access hikeing trails in the Mountain Loop HWY area, like Independance Lake, and it seemed like they'd had a lot of work done to them recently. But in the last couple of years, I haven't noticed any evidence of trail maintenance. I don't know where the money is going (Mt Rainier? buying gas for rangers to write tickets?) but it doesn't appear to be going to the trails I've been on.

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I think that climbing permits for Mt. Rainier might be a good idea, because overcrowding can be a big and disgusting problem. However, we should not have to PAY to climb the mountain. Because of ridiculous climbing fees, I never register with the rangers when I head up Rainier. It is stupid that a climber should have to sacrifice his/her safety (They won't rescue you if they don't know you're missing), in order to go climbing without paying.

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I doubt the climbing fees were earmarked for this, rather funds pulled from entrance fees and golden eagle passes.

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about fee demo. a few accurate things were stated...

Beck Said, "I doubt the climbing fees were earmarked for this, rather funds pulled from entrance fees and golden eagle passes."

YES, VERY TRUE.

Alpine Tom Said, "It’s my understanding that the fee demo program isn’t intended for things like Camp Muir, that’s what the summit fees are for. I had thought the fee demo program was intended for things like trail maintenance in national forests. The National parks have separate budgets, and they have things like entrance fees as well as a small cut from the federal budget. That’s what our fearless leader was going on about down in Yosemite last week.

Hey - maybe the fee demo program has so much money they’re sharing!"

YES MOSTLY TRUE, though fee demo is also collected in national parks, and goes to park related projects. by the way, the fearless leader was at sequoia last week. the word on the street now is that 60% of fee demo collections (the entrance fees) will go to backlog maintenance projects... 21% goes to the cost of collection itself...

rainiers' climbing fee, like denali's, supports only climbing operations. it's a "special use fee." not fee demo… i know, it’s a play on words, but at least the $ stays in the park and support climber related services…

on another note, Colin said, "I never register with the rangers when I head up Rainier. It is stupid that a climber should have to sacrifice his/her safety (They won't rescue you if they don't know you're missing), in order to go climbing without paying."

that's fine colin, you certainly wouldn't be the first to avoid registering and quite frankly i'm VERY familiar with your expressed sentiment... but colin, you need to think about what you wrote. it's hardly anyone else's fault if you run into trouble. how can you justify breaking the rules, then blame your "potential" problem on someone else...??? if you don’t register, it’s YOUR sacrifice, not ours if you run into trouble…

almost ALL of our rescues are called in by cell phone or ham radio anyway. RARELY, and i mean RARELY, do we begin searches/rescues b/c someone is late.... more than likely, someone will report you missing first... the climbing cards help us to monitor visitor use and give us information on your skills and resources if you DO get into trouble. if you climb without registering, and I don’t recommend it, carry your cell phone and/or ham radio. we WILL certainly help you if you need it… and we wont be jerks about it either (though you will be asked to register…) ; )

gauthier

 

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OK, since we're going on about fees. It seems ridiculous that it cost $30 for me and my kid to climb St. Helens, yet visiting the multi-million dollar visitor center would have been free. Our cost and impact to the park while climbing- one use of the toilet with virtually no environmental impact (we hiked on snow the whole way). The cost and impact to build and maintain the visitor center - obviously just a wee bit more.

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Helens tops it all.... did you know snomobilers do not have to pay "impact fees" to go above 5000 ft, yet climbers do?! I found this out when I was planning my annual ski tour this year. for more info about why you should boycot the fee demo program go to wildwilderness.org.

I have decided from now on to only pay fines (if I ever get them) to climb peaks, and I leave my trip plans with friends for safety, rather than registering with smokey. I too initially accepted the fees to help pay for trail maint etc.. The more I looked into this fee demo program I realized there is much more politics envolved. I decided to boycot the fees. Keep in mind this is a DEMO program and will be instituted if it funds the needs of public lands. The more people voice their oppinion against this program, these fees are less likely to be enforced. keep climbing, stop paying

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Now that Bush and Norton are at the helm, I think it's going to be much more important for climbers to start playing a bigger part in the game we go to the hills to try to forget about. Bush announced he wants more money for National Parks, but what that means is he wants more roads, more parking lots, more buildings and apparently a great new branding campaign. It's no secret the government, more than ever, is ruled by big business, and these two are in their pockets - in this case companies like Winnebago, Coleman, auto makers...anyone who would benefit from increased recreation powered by fossil fuels. Did anyone notice the snowmobilers dropping their lawsuit against Denali Nat. park? Did someone make a back door deal?

Anyways, I agree with civil disobedience and I think the demo programs and whatever they do in the Gifford Pinchot make absolutely no sense to me at all. However I'll pay the climbing fees at Rainier, and have done so every single time (even though once I got snagged on the way up and got registered by radio...they were pretty nice about it btw) - the rangers up there do a great job.

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