double ropes

[counterfeitfake]

This stuff seems pretty important, I am wondering if when you buy double ropes, they come with instructions explaining any of this.

 

oh hey, like, rope? or something?

Edited June 30, 2006 by counterfeitfake

[mattp]

It is not as confusing as we've managed to make it sound and (just like so many other things in climbing) everyone has their own "must do" rules that in many cases directly contradict and which may or may not be helpful.

[jmace]

I am wondering if when you buy double ropes, they come with instructions explaining any of this.

 

Ya they say this many single rope falls and this many double rope falls...before you retire it.

 

 

Why is it so hard how to figure out how this rope system is to be used..

 

Counterfit were you just worried that one rope may not hold your fall? well it will is that all you were confused about?

[RuMR]

I use 2 3/8" diameter steel cables with a 35 lb midget not anchored and rubber band bungie cord quickdraws to catch myself...

 

guaranteed to never break!

[haireball]

I've climbed almost exclusively on double rope belay systems since the early 1980s, so what I have to say is what I have experienced. I am aware that skinny ropes are engineered to be used either as "half-ropes" (clipped alternately) or as "twin-ropes" (both strands clipped together as if they were a single rope). The catalogue writers describe these as very different, seemingly incompatible systems, and strongly discourage "twinning a halfrope" or "halving a twinrope", however, if you take a close look at the load-ratings, stretch factors, impact forces, etc, don't expect to find dramatic differences. Being a congenital cynic, I suspect a scheme to sell you two sets of ropes, where one is adequate.

 

Anyway - here's how I use 'em: on lead, I always clip them as twins, unless rope drag is an issue, or a placement is suspect. Clipping only one of the ropes is a strategy to reduce rope drag, or to halve the impact force on a suspect placement (saves me having to invest in screamers...).

 

I made the switch from single-rope belay to double ropes for one reason: at the time, there had never been a catastrophic belay failure documented anywhere in the world for double-rope belay systems. Since making the switch, I've discovered numerous benefits, particularly for protecting the second climber on long traverses, and for executing pendulum maneuvers.

 

the short version? I haven't bought a fat rope since 1982. I have extensive personal experience of Sterling, Beal, Blue Water, Edelrid, and Edelweiss skinny ropes, and while I favor Edelrid for durability and handling characteristics, I just buy whatever I can get for the best price at the time of purchase.

[haireball]

this is good discussion, and I'm gonna derail it slightly by directing the focus back to experience in the real world. Since 1982, I have climbed almost exclusively on double-rope belay systems. I made the switch for the simple reason that, at that time, there had never been a catastrophic belay failure documented anywhere in the world, by climbers belaying with double ropes. I don't know if this is still true, but if it is, it seems a compelling point.

 

I have owned and worn out over those 24 years, sets of Beal, Edelweiss, Edelrid, Sterling, and Blue Water doubles. I favor Edelrid, but am perfectly happy anymore to buy whatever I can get for the most attractive price. While the marketers would have us believe that "half-ropes" and "twin-ropes" are very different species, in my own climbing, I have dispensed with the distinction. What has worked for me in real-world climbing is to twin-rope (clip both strands in every placement, as if they were a single rope) unless rope drag is an issue, or a placement seems suspect (fragile). If a route is zig-zagging, I clip single strands to reduce rope drag (it also protects the following climber more effectively), and on suspect placements, I clip a single strand to reduce impact force (this saves me having to invest in screamers). In falls as long as 40 feet, I've never failed a placement, though I'd ignored the "rule" and twin-clipped half-ropes. (note: before I'd made the switch to doubles, I had, on occasion, unzipped placements using single ropes with supposedly lower impact forces...)

 

also - I've found it no particular trick to take in one strand while feeding out the other on belay, even back in the days when we were using double munters! a few minutes of practice will sort you right out. and doubles make protecting traverses for a timid second a snap - as well as taking all the pain out of following pendulums.

 

bottom line? - unless you climb exclusively at a gym,or on single-pitch sport lines with modern fat bolts, I would STRONGLY recommend the double rope belay system. If and when you do make the switch, note that I've observed a fairly dramatic difference in braking power between the older belay devices (e.g. ATC) and the newer versions with the v-slots - recommend updating your belay-brake device if you're still using one with straight slots.