Can't F*cking Decide!!!! Down or Synthetic Bag?

[ncascademtns]

When I moved out here from Minnesota, I was told that the northwest was wet, that was no fib. I was also told to purchase a synthetic bag, that I did. Where is it now? Hanging in my closet. For how long? I can't remember the last time I took it out. I went back to down and I can't remember the last time I hike out of a climb with a wet bag stuffed in my pack. It just doesn't happen. (to me)

Don't let the wetness of the northwest make you think that down is not the way to go.

 

Oh, I forgot to mention. Can't remember the last time I took my tent out of the closet?

Tent is Aid.

[Bug]

Okay folks....I know this question has probably been asked a million times but I need to ask it anyway.

 

Down or synthetic fill for a mountaineering bag? I understand that a down bag is highly compressable, warm, and must be kept dry, and weigh less that synthetics. I also understand that a synthetic will insulate when wet but is bulkier and heavier than down.

 

So....with that said....for those of you that use down for mountaineering / climbing....how do you go about keeping it dry? You use a bivy sack? If so....what are the best bivy sacks out there? I've been looking at some of the sacks made by Integral Designs with the eVENT fabric. eVENT appears to be better at breathing than Gore-Tex according to the gear reviews I've been reading.

 

F*ck....looks like I went on too much. SO...down or sythetic. That is the question. What do you prefer and why?

 

I didn't read the other posts, but I will say this. I can think of very few reasons or places to own a synthetic bag and the PNW isn't one of them. "how do you keep your down bag dry" you ask? simple, a waterproof stuff sac (<2 oz). You keep it in the wp stuff sac until your tent is set up. get in your tent, take bag out of stuff sac, sleep, repack, repeat. its so simple, I really don't understand why people have problems?? maybe I have been lucky that my tent hasn't blown apart during a rain storm? I don't know. It seems pretty simple from my end.

The longer I am out, the more I appreciate synthetic. This is especially true if I am linking long days where I am going to bed damp from sweating. Anything past 3 nights and down starts losing it's loft pretty noticably. There is also the condensation inside the tent to deal with.

But I know people who make down work for them. I throw in a synthetic bag and do not have to worry about how wet it gets under almost any conditions.

[ashw_justin]

I spent a night in a down bag with an REI El 'waterproof-breatheable' shell, at 7000 feet with constant but light 38-degree rain. By the morning, the bag had about as much loft as a soiled diaper. (I had lent my bivy sack to one of my partners.)

 

Don't use down in the rain. Period.

 

To be fair, I would guess that they start working again below 20 F, where you don't have to worry about the moisture of your surroudings anymore.

[moon_rocks]

i think that there are many ways to protect a down bag, and with the lightness, warmth and convenience why wouldn't you go down? i have been winter camping and in the mountains with my down bag, and it has been of no trouble to me. A light bibler bivy perhaps? Down is more versatile and a helluva a lot lighter. lighten the load, and your mind and go down.

[Fromage]

According to a thread on ukclimbing.com Pertex is about as waterproof as cheesecloth.

 

Pertex is the name of an English textile company, not a specific fabric. This company went out of business in 2005. Your comment is vague and inaccurate, since some of the fabrics that Pertex made, namely Endurance, had very good water resistance (PU coated nylon). If you were referring to Quantum, that fabric's water resistance was not great, but since you didn't specify, it makes it hard for others to know what you meant. It's like saying "All Chevrolets are slow," which is obviously untrue if your Chevy happens to be a Corvette. And were you talking about Gore cheesecloth or Martha Stewart cheesecloth?

[Dru]

All Chevrolets may not be slow, but all Chevrolets suck

[rhyang]

Pertex is the name of an English textile company, not a specific fabric. This company went out of business in 2005.

 

That's interesting news. Are the various fabrics going to be made by someone else, or are their products basically obsolete ?

[Fromage]

Pertex products are not obsolete. Some companies, like Marmot, purchased enough of the remaining fabric inventory to continue manufacturing their products with it for a while. The guy I talked to at Marmot said they had about a year's worth of fabric and were looking for substitutes in the meantime. Regardless of the fate of Pertex, there are so many different textile mills producing quality fabrics that this will not spell the end of lightweight nylon.

 

Now for the confusing part: an Asian textile company named Mitsui has purchased the name Quantum to brand their own type of fabric which will be a little different from the original English Pertex Quantum. This new Quantum has not found its way into commercially available products yet as far as I know. The demise of Pertex is going to bring an interesting shift in materials sourcing in the gear industry. Marmot and TNF were two of the companies more heavily dependent on Pertex fabrics, and it will be interesting to see where they go to find replacements. Feathered Friends has found a new lightweight nylon and is already using it in their products. The folks at their factory think it is a denser and more stable fabric than Pertex Quantum and say it is practically the same weight.

 

Rather than asking "are Pertex products obsolete?" you should examine the quality of the manufacturing of the companies who are using the material. The quality of the materials are only one part of the overall quality picture. Three different companies using the same fabric may produce items of distinctly different qualities because of their designs and how they are put together.

[BarryAnnArbor]

Just as an aside, and to be a bit political, how many synthetic bags are made in the US? Honestly - Wild Things (half-sack), Wiggy's (downright odd). Integral Designs makes good bags, though. All the other synthetic bags are made by, frankly, sweatshop laborers paid a couple cents an hour. Just a consideration...

[Mark_Husbands]

The demise of Pertex is going to bring an interesting shift in materials sourcing in the gear industry.

This is what you find interesting now? What I find interesting is the hazard posed by trees along freeways. Look into that and get back to us.

[Dr_Crash]

Tom, if you decide for synthetic, I'll be happy to sell my -3 C (~ 25 F) bag. The rating is a true certified rating, the bag being European it has been tested against Euro rating standards (which means that you'll sleep very comfortably in it at 25-20 degrees, and can go lower). I've used it for winter snow camping with no issues whatsoever (and I sleep cold).

 

drC

[ashw_justin]

Down is more versatile