Beacon Rock Notice

[billcoe]

Nother point.

 

 

Flying Dutchman Anchors and Rap: Flying Dutchman has been cleaned and restored to climbable and protectable condition, enjoy...

 

 

You cleaned it off? Cleaned it? I'll bet somebody is gonna show up and piss on you here in a moment for making it easier to get up it, and then showing up and telling people exactly that.

 

Has anyone done this route?

 

Anyone?

 

Well, I wanted to head over to it this summer (would have except for the foot issue, so maybe next year), and so I want to personally thank you for spending the time and effort to get it ready for me!

 

Thank you

[JosephH]

Oh sh*t, did I just admit to talking to my dog? Also, I'm threatened by Blood Sweat and Smears and the direct start to Bluebird. Peace, Stewart

 

Maybe he has a point - some secrets just shouldn't be shared...

[Cobra_Commander]

The concern about increased traffic on routes due to posting on cc.com is legitimate. There is a huge herd mentality here, with postings of photos giving exact route conditions etc removing adventure, and overall making things more mentally accessible in general. For example, photos of routes on Beacon indicating rap stations, anchors, suggested gear sizes, etc would absolutely bring more traffic there. Woe-be-tide those who venture onto routes done the previous weekend featured on the .com.

 

I present the following evidence to the jury:

Dragontail: Triple Couloirs

Mt. Hood: North Face

Mt. Hood: Yocum Ridge

[markd]

Nother point.

 

 

Flying Dutchman Anchors and Rap: Flying Dutchman has been cleaned and restored to climbable and protectable condition, enjoy...

 

 

You cleaned it off? Cleaned it? I'll bet somebody is gonna show up and piss on you here in a moment for making it easier to get up it, and then showing up and telling people exactly that.

 

Has anyone done this route?

 

Anyone?

 

Well, I wanted to head over to it this summer (would have except for the foot issue, so maybe next year), and so I want to personally thank you for spending the time and effort to get it ready for me!

 

Thank you

 

yes, many times. and so have many other people who have posted in this thread. i watched jefrick onsight it last year. stewart's got a good story for his first try it as well. and the second pitch was freed two years ago, which i told you via email right after it happened.

 

i think it all comes down to agreeing to disagree. my biggest concern is the internet broadcasting of a crag that used to see very little traffic and had a mysterious feel to it.

[Stewart]

Yes its true, I'm Dutch. And its also true that I flew off of that route for a 20ft whipper. And yes I'm THREATENED by that climb as well. But I love clippin into bashies on lead so I'll probable go back for more and would be honered to have Bill Coe belay me cuz I think you were part of the original ascent. Weren't You? Whats the Story with the bashy, is it still there after the cleaning, I certainly hope so. Peace, Stewart or (aka snoop) to some.

[billcoe]

Hi Mark (thats right you did! Again, nice job BTW) Stewart! 20 footer onto a bashie! you rock, I'm happy you'd be honored to get a belay from me on it, I give great belay too!

 

 

 

Anybody else out there aware of any threats to beacon besides overexposure?

 

Sigh I do.............yes. But we are getting into a relm where typing the story will be both too short and abrupt.

 

A get together would be the way to talk that over. But even a get togther with 4-5 people turns into something which resembles a car shooting off downhill which has no driver and no brakes, and minimal direction either for that matter.

 

Ask Kevin how that works - I think he was in the Lucky Lab with Jimmy O, JH, McGowen , myself and the lovely and witty Kellie R from the access fund earlier this year - ask how that story plays out.

 

At the core is- should we do nothing, or should we try and get access to the West and East Face, and the ability to clean a route without pissing off the park people. Yes, they did catch a fella putting a sweet 5.9 with 7 bolts just to the left of the "closed" sign on the north side. Yes it was a BIG issue for the park. In that instance, dude (Gordon) was out of bounds and a loose rock could have hit a tourist or parked car. They were cranked nd upset, deservely so. There is a climbing mangaement plan which was hammered out years ago. Jim O, Mike Jackson and Larry jennings all were into working with the park under the last ranger, with variying results. Ask Jim, long story.

 

Some people would like to see those issues dealt with before hand and have a voice in talking to the park. It is a park, they are GENERALLY happy to have us and happy to have people use the park - that is the mission of the Wa state parks system, to be there for people to use them and enjoy them. The park folks work hard, they are proud of the job they do, and are as concerned about the park as anybody here. Relationships out there are good right now (you can thank Joseph for a lot of that), but probably should be worked on periodically (washed like an old blanket once in a while) to make it better.

 

I don't want to be somebody who puts in hours of labor on non-paying crap like this (especialy given how unhappy it seems to have made many of you), but Joseph has.

 

The real question is: how do we move forward ? Is the general consensis to just walk away and leave it alone? Let the rangers figure stuff out on their own and show up periodically and tell you what the new rule changes are without asking for your input?

 

I'm afraid that they will if we stay disengaged. I have had feelings of fear from being so open with them, I have shared that with Joseph too, including this tree thing. But I suspect I was wrong on that. They are glad we are concerned enough to do something and they are very open with working with them.

 

So now what?

 

Just go climb eh?

[JosephH]

i think it all comes down to agreeing to disagree. my biggest concern is the internet broadcasting of a crag that used to see very little traffic and had a mysterious feel to it.

 

Mark, I definitely appreciate the concerns, but for me it's matter of needing, on several fronts, to establish an open and transparent credibility to give us as "Beacon locals" a verifiable involvement with ongoing issues at BRSP. Without a coherent track record recognized/recognizable by various agencies of record it makes it very hard for the BRSP staff to justify working with "us" versus someone else ("non-Beacon locals") to set agendas, priorities, and futures. That involves making some trade offs and to some extent there is some risk involved. I suspect, however, that the enduring "mystery" out at Beacon is at least as resilient as the SE Corner tree.

 

But Beacon isn't suffering from any increase in traffic that I've noticed this year - if anything it seems lighter than last year and tapering off fast. I still maintain that keeping it trad is the best way to keep the crowds down and retain the "mystery" of the place. More or less like the movie said, "bolt it and they will come...". Anyone that's lost the mystery out there should think about getting on the many rarely if ever climbed routes above the Grassy ledges or above the "Arena of Terror".

 

P.S. I asked before, when you say the second pitch of FD do you mean from the anchor on the left halfway up taking just the seam in the dihedral, or do you mean from the high anchor on the left then topping out? Also, when are you coming over again?

[crimper]

But Joseph, you said that your goal was to

 

I think Cobra Commander (with a little sarcasm, maybe?) and markd cut to the chase of what i've been trying to say: internet broadcasting cuts both ways, and my opinion is that joseph's broadcasting has gone beyond the helpful and entered into the harmful - although it's not late for him to return to the helpful zone.

 

and for all my admittedly very personal criticism of joseph's style, i always want to express my support for the cleaning and anchor replacements he has performed at beacon rock (and his willingness to compromise, as demonstrated by his agreeing to remove the slings off of the tree ledge tree, and instead place a sign on or near it)

 

thank you for listening joseph, and i'm sure we'll all continue to hear how things are going out there.

[JosephH]

The concern about increased traffic on routes due to posting on cc.com is legitimate. There is a huge herd mentality here, with postings of photos giving exact route conditions etc removing adventure, and overall making things more mentally accessible in general. For example, photos of routes on Beacon indicating rap stations, anchors, suggested gear sizes, etc would absolutely bring more traffic there. Woe-be-tide those who venture onto routes done the previous weekend featured on the .com.

 

I present the following evidence to the jury:

Dragontail: Triple Couloirs

Mt. Hood: North Face

Mt. Hood: Yocum Ridge

 

Cobra,

 

Sorry I missed your post until Bryan mentioned it above. But to your points, I haven't posted route photos or route beta; what I have done is blog the status of anchor replacements as they are done and made general comments about some of the routes. Some of those comments, particualarly those about the "Flying Dutchman" rap are because we'd very much like to relieve some of the pressure and re-route some traffic off the main SE descent route down Jill's where there is a very high potential for rappellers to dump rock down on folks at the base of the SE Corner. The FD rap is clean and does not have folks hanging out below. Most all my other comments are safety related or about routes or parts of Beacon that essentially are never or very rarely climbed and are badly overgrown - again, the only real "mystery" about them is why the don't get climbed, though I have my suspicions. I mean, how many of you have ever climbed, or when was the last time were on, "Flying Swallow", "Flight Time", "Iron Maiden", or "Riverside"?

 

And just for the record, I despise guidebooks and always have, almost all of my early climbing was FA's, and I only use guidebooks to get to a new area and to understand how it's laid out, not to pick routes - I don't even want to know whether lines are routes or not. I am a big proponent of people developing the skills necessary to look at a line and make judgements about how well you're abilities map to it. I didn't pick up a Portland area guide until last year so Jim could walk the base with me and go over each route's history prior to this work. You won't find me spraying beta about what you need to do a route, just what anchors have been replaced, what routes have been cleaned, and what rope lengths work on desirable raps and what raps to avoid. Again, and that principally to provide a verifiable "audit trail" for some of the more political work down the road.

[Cobra_Commander]

I certainly agree w/ others that your heart and head are in the right place. The route photo/topo etc example was just that: an example of what would be taking it too far.

 

I don't think it can be denied, however, that posting a beacon update on this site puts the "beacon option" in every climber's mind who reads this site each time it is done. It would be selfish to say this is a bad thing, but it is certainly a reality.

 

You reach A TON of people these days by posting on this site and it is important to realize the power you have with a few words here, so it pays to think carefully before posting anything. Thanks!

[markd]

first, i did not free the second pitch to flying dutchman, eric did.

 

flying dutchman is two pitches to grassy ledges. he did the second one.(the top of the first pitch is red webbing with two carabiners to rap off). it should also be noted, that he did not add any fixed gear.

Edited October 13, 2005 by markd

[JosephH]

After talking with Bill I wanted to reiterate a point and be explicit about another.

 

I guess my bottom line is if you want to acheive any of the following results:

 

- Get route development on the NW Face opened back up.

- Cooperatively monitor the Peregrines to help determine the extent, scope, and duration of each year's closure.

- Get the West face out from under the Peregrine closure.

- Get the East face closure revisited and reexamined in part or in whole.

- Get a clear and shared understanding and agreement on route "cleaning" so we can operate transparently.

- Get the fixed pro approval/route development process changed from a per placement basis to a per route basis.

- To establish pre-opening and post-closure work sessions to get work done that is too hazardous to accomplish during the open season.

- To insure us "locals" are positioned to partner with the BRSP Staff in the next review/revision of the BRSP Climbing Management Plan.

 

And if you think you can do it with no credibility, no track record besides a bad one (in their eyes), and no formal standing - then, hey, go for it. And you may be able to build the requisite relationships with the human beings representing the various agencies by smack-talking them and trying to "hide" information from them on one hand (bad faith) while putting on the appearance of operating in good faith, but I can't - and further, I won't.

 

Again, none of this is a good time for me, I'd rather be doing something else like climbing and putting up routes. From my personal perspective it's a matter of holding on to the events, behaviors, and attitudes of the past while nothing gets done besides endless bitching and moaning or sucking it up, taking a few [minimal] risks, and try to move forward.

[JosephH]

first, i did not free the second pitch to flying dutchman, eric did.

 

flying dutchman is two pitches to grassy ledges. he did the second one.(the top of the first pitch is red webbing with two carabiners to rap off). it should also be noted, that he did not add any fixed gear.

 

Ah, you're other pm's and post made me think you were with him when he did it. The anchors on it were replaced and at this point I've been through so many that I can't remember whether the anchor you described was the one at the middle right or higher on the left.

[markd]

joseph,

people do climb riverside.

 

not as many people climb flying swallow because it's 10d R and was freed by jeff thomas who was a known bold climber.

 

flight time is a harder rating and is protected by old pins, which means not a lot of traffic.

 

and iron maiden is 5.11A4. not many people aid that grade for fun at beacon.

[markd]

first, i did not free the second pitch to flying dutchman, eric did.

 

flying dutchman is two pitches to grassy ledges. he did the second one.(the top of the first pitch is red webbing with two carabiners to rap off). it should also be noted, that he did not add any fixed gear.

 

Ah, you're other pm's and post made me think you were with him when he did it. The anchors on it were replaced and at this point I've been through so many that I can't remember whether the anchor you described was the one at the middle right or higher on the left.

 

higher on left would be the anchor for bears in heat.

 

flying dutchman's first pitch climbs to the top of the pillar as does psychic wound's first pitch. the second pitch goes straight up passing a couple pins to the grassy ledge anchor.

[markd]

first, i did not free the second pitch to flying dutchman, eric did.

 

flying dutchman is two pitches to grassy ledges. he did the second one.(the top of the first pitch is red webbing with two carabiners to rap off). it should also be noted, that he did not add any fixed gear.

 

Ah, you're other pm's and post made me think you were with him when he did it. The anchors on it were replaced and at this point I've been through so many that I can't remember whether the anchor you described was the one at the middle right or higher on the left.

 

first, i belayed him on the second pitch, just not his successful run.

 

second, are you just replacing anchors blindly? not all anchors need to be replaced? some may not be appropriate or just added at a later time for no concievable reason.

 

third, again my biggest concern is the spray on the internet. any chance of just doing the good deeds and not letting everybody on the web know your every move? you can still tell the rangers, just keep it to minimal on cc.com?

[retired]

wow!

that took awhile to get thru. I'd like to say that I can see valid points in most everyones posts and would also like to mention how you can isolate yourself and your reality when you focus on just one climbing area, my advice... ROAD TRIP! Just back from a month of climbing and ready to go again. Maybe I'll see you out at Beacon on Sunday and wittness for myself what all the fuss is about. The dark tower becons me...or is it Beacons me. Climbers are sure never lacking from a lack of oppinion, are they? Jim

[crimper]

Joseph, I think we all share most of your goals and appreciate that you are working to increase access via a transparent and open relationship with the rangers. That's hard to argue with.

 

It's also important that you remain open to feedback such as what's been written in just the last few days.

 

We are a community of climbers, and we should be coming together to support you in your goals, as we share them. Just please be selective about what you post and how you post it, and listen to what you hear from the likes of kevbone, markd, stewart, jfricke, cobra commander, bill coe and others who have weighed in on the subject.

 

Are we arriving at some kind of understanding here?

[JosephH]

I don't think it can be denied, however, that posting a beacon update on this site puts the "beacon option" in every climber's mind who reads this site each time it is done. It would be selfish to say this is a bad thing, but it is certainly a reality.

 

You reach A TON of people these days by posting on this site and it is important to realize the power you have with a few words here, so it pays to think carefully before posting anything. Thanks!

 

Again, I understand the concern and believe me, I hate crowds and basically never go to Smith for that reason; most of my climbing out at Beacon over the years has been roped soloing when I've had the entire place to myself. If I had things entirely my way all the bolts near tunnel #1 and Rythmn Method would go away and nearly all the bolts on Young Warriors as well and I'd go back to lying about how intense the poison oak is every year.

 

As for the updates, the Anchor Replacement Project is part of a trade off/risk to establish a track record that is easily verifiable by other agencies of record to show we're active and vested. Each update so far has had a remarkably steadystate viewership of roughly 250 people over the week following a post which I would guess is a rough approximation of the number of trad-capable climbers in PDX that use the Internet at a fairly high level and on a regular basis. From my perspective it's an necessary and acceptable trade-off to accomplish some of the goals above, I certainly understand some of you may not agree, however...

[JosephH]

wow!

that took awhile to get thru. I'd like to say that I can see valid points in most everyones posts and would also like to mention how you can isolate yourself and your reality when you focus on just one climbing area, my advice... ROAD TRIP! Just back from a month of climbing and ready to go again. Maybe I'll see you out at Beacon on Sunday and wittness for myself what all the fuss is about. The dark tower becons me...or is it Beacons me. Climbers are sure never lacking from a lack of oppinion, are they? Jim

 

Hey, you miserable road tramp! Hell, you're the one with time to burn - we should be roping your ass into getting some of this stuff done, but I know - you're "retired" now, too busy in the Creek, the Valley, and all those other pressing 'the xxxxx's...

 

The crew will be out Sunday for sure and Mark you should come up and join the fray.

[JosephH]

higher on left would be the anchor for bears in heat.

 

flying dutchman's first pitch climbs to the top of the pillar as does psychic wound's first pitch. the second pitch goes straight up passing a couple pins to the grassy ledge anchor.

 

That's what I thought, the first half of the 2nd pitch right off the anchor looks pretty damn stout, the upper half looks fun and quite reasonable. Definitely nice climbing by Eric as is most of what I've seen...

[Peter_Puget]

Just a few comments from someone living in Seattle. Over the years ( 25+) I have made many trips to Beacon. I never considered Beacon some intense “trad” place; it simply seemed like a fun place to go climbing. I rarely ran into other climbers out there and haven’t been there for several years but given the infrequency of meeting other climbers there it sounds like Beacon was getting to be more popular before the recent internet postings.

 

As a visitor from the north with a longtime interest in Beacon I am interested in seeing which routes have been cleaned and/or had their equipment upgraded. Perhaps a solution would be to have the Beacon reports made sticky and edit the thread with new info pasted to the top and the thread title revised to show the date of revision. The information would be available to those seeking it.

 

That said I am amazed that no one has even brought up the possibility that the etchings were in fact a direct response to recent internet postings.

Edited October 13, 2005 by Peter_Puget

[JosephH]

first, i belayed him on the second pitch, just not his successful run.

 

second, are you just replacing anchors blindly? not all anchors need to be replaced? some may not be appropriate or just added at a later time for no concievable reason.

 

third, again my biggest concern is the spray on the internet. any chance of just doing the good deeds and not letting everybody on the web know your every move? you can still tell the rangers, just keep it to minimal on cc.com?

 

Mark,

 

Sorry, just saw this post. No I'm not replacing them blindly, more like thoroughly, and I'm checking every single one and so far most all have been deteriorated in some manner or another, badly drilled (many at big angles with stacks of washers under the hanger, spinning badly, or otherwise problematic. Some replacements are in agreement with BRSP to get "brightwork" (chains) off the rock. Surprisingly, many of the newer anchors, like the first two anchors on Young Warriors, were in some of the worst condition. All fixed pins encountered are being inspected, tested, and either reset or replaced. Jim O. is also identifying a few pins that were stolen off routes during a bad rash of that behavior and are being restored. The anchors are being replaced with heavy Metolius Rap hangers and most have been replaced with SS(316) 3/8"x 3-3/4" bolts though some early ones were have 5-piece powerbolts. Most intermediate anchors on the columns are bare otherwise they have dual-figure-8 webbing through two Fixe SS 50kn rap rings.

 

As I've said there is a reason for the updates and they will continue at least through to the end of the project and probably infreqently after that (quarterly or monthly during the season) as the need arises and to show continous dialog and involvement as a vested group. Hopefully most of those would be related to progress on some more of the goals listed in the post above.

[JosephH]

Just a few comments from someone living in Seattle. Over the years ( 25+) I have made many trips to Beacon. I never considered Beacon some intense “trad” place; it simply seemed like a fun place to go climbing. I rarely ran into other climbers out there and haven’t been there for several years but given the infrequency of meeting other climbers there it sounds like Beacon was getting to be more popular before the recent internet postings.

 

Peter,

 

It would be much more convient to have a sticky post just for the status updates and all this discussion in a separate one...

 

That said I am amazed that no one has even brought up the possibility that the etchings were in fact a direct response to recent internet postings.

 

I assume you mean the arrows; anything is possible, but I frankly doubt it. There was a couple on Young Warriors ahead of us just days before and he put big chalk arrows roughly the same size and shape for his gf to follow and I suspect that is likely who did it. Every year I've been climbing there some sketch activity seems to take place sooner or later and I would guess it was this year's version. Again, anything is possible, but I'd still maintain that the bolts on the routes I've mention have, do, and will attract way more people that otherwise would never visit than the updates ever will.

 

I hear what you're saying about your perception of "tradiness" as a visitor, but I think I can safely say that would be the majority sentiment of the locals, especially the older ones, but then Bill can speak for himself as can Jim O. if you run into him out there.

 

[JosephH]

Joseph, I think we all share most of your goals and appreciate that you are working to increase access via a transparent and open relationship with the rangers. That's hard to argue with.

 

It's also important that you remain open to feedback such as what's been written in just the last few days.

 

We are a community of climbers, and we should be coming together to support you in your goals, as we share them. Just please be selective about what you post and how you post it, and listen to what you hear from the likes of kevbone, markd, stewart, jfricke, cobra commander, bill coe and others who have weighed in on the subject.

 

Are we arriving at some kind of understanding here?

 

Bryan,

 

I'd like to think I am open and listening. As I said I'll still be doing updates and they'll contain the types of info I've discussed and for the reasons I've stated. Again, I'm not into route beta - everyone is on their own when they step up to a line.

 

With the caveat that Mark said, that in some instances we'll have to agree to disagree, I'd also like to think that we're arriving at a shared understanding of each everyone's positions as they've represented them and feel I've tried, maybe in a reverse order, to explain the rationale behind my and BRCA's actions.

 

[P.S. I'm going off line for a bit as I have just been slammed with a bunch of work I have to get off and will try to check in a couple of times over the next two days. Thanks to everyone for caring enough to jump in and contribute to the dialogue...]