sony Posted June 8, 2005 Share Posted June 8, 2005 (edited) Why not buy Trangos vs BD C4 Camalots? So who has used those redesigned flexcams? Questions: - What do C4 offer that FC don't, besides the fact that every rich climber has BD cams? - Have you used the *NEW* flexcams and do you like their action, stability, design... or hate specific things? - Have the new flexcams 7, 8, 9 heads been wideened to avoid walking that people complain on old versions? - Are any quirks of the old cams still in these new versions? - Does the splitter offer confidence inspirng placements is it any good? I believe these stateemnts are correct, but plz confirm: - Springs are now stiffer than old models to prevent walking - All cams have camstops/work OK as passive pro NOTE: ===== I have attached a picture comparing CAM ranges for the cams I've looked at. ===== My take on the Flexcam is they seem: - Cheaper - Lighter !!! - Equal range per offset cams but offset for ex: FC#8 ~ C4#3, FC#9 ~ C4#4 - Smaller range on the splitter smaller models - The color coding is similar to C4's, though not quite the same (FC#6 ~ C4#2, both yellow etc. but diverges for sizes >= C4#4 and <= C4#.5) - range: covers below C4#.5 up to C4#4 With the extra ca$h, get the new max cams #4 and a C4 #6 boat anchor ... Edited June 8, 2005 by sony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted June 8, 2005 Share Posted June 8, 2005 I have used the C4s a bit now. If you get them, the larger sizes are the real payoff. For example, the purple "5" is now lighter than the old bluish-purple "4", yet larger (if I remember right, I don't have them in front of me). The smaller sizes lose much of the weight savings, but the triggers are a lot nicer than version 2 of the BDs, and obviously much better than the old camalot jr's in the 0.5 and 0.75 sizes. They are sweet, if you can find them for the right price. You just can't beat the #0.5-#2 camalots! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sony Posted June 9, 2005 Author Share Posted June 9, 2005 Since you mention old vs new camalots, let me drop some hard figure I just happened to compile too. You're saving about 1lb with C4's and can now probably set in cracks 1cm wider than before (~ 17cm or cracks the size of a fully open old #5)... NEW OLD delta price strentgh range(mm) gr/oz .1 - 65/2.3 - /$59 7kn 8.6-13.7 .2 - 72/2.5 - /$49 8kn 10.4-16.5 .3 - 77/2.7 - /$49 10kn 12.7-21.8 .4 82/2.9 97/3.4 -15 $59/ 10kn/12kn 16-27 .5 97/3.4 116/4.1 -19 $59/ 12kn/12kn 20-34 .75 116/4.1 141/4.9 -25 $59/ 14kn/16kn 24-41 1 134/4.7 151/5.3 -17 $62/ ... 30-52 2 158/7.1 184/6.5 -26 $62/$49 37-65 3 201/7.1 240/8.4 -39 $68/$55 51-88 3.5 307/10.8 -307 4 278/9.8 349/12.3 -71 $78 66-115 4.5 430/15.2 -430 -/$83 -/12kn 5 381/13.4 544/19.2 -163 $98/$95 14kn/12kn 85-149 6 557/20 +557 $109 114-195 -1lb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenderfour Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 I posted this in the Newbies forum: I bought a set of the new Trango Flex Cams on the cheap - Here's my take: Pros: They are pretty lightweight and easy to control with the loop on the back. The stem is more flexible than most other single-stem cams. Aliens are still more flexible. The splitter design of the smaller sizes can hold with only 2 of the 4 lobes engaged. This could be very cool when aid climbing. I haven't dangled off half a cam before... Cons: The springs are soft allowing the cams to walk more than I would like them to. The springs are also a bit exposed, especially on the smaller sizes. I thought this would be a problem, but it hasn't been yet. I would pay about $30/cam for these, certainly not the $50 list price. In addition to this, I've noticed that the cam lobes on the Trangos are "floppy". They don't stay oriented properly along the stem. THis is a very minor annoyance, but it makes me wonder how long the springs will last. That all being said, I would definitely buy the C4's over the Trangos at list prices. If you were going to buy any of the Trangos, I would stick to the smaller splitter sizes. THere seems to be an advantage to the design, but I haven't been able to fully explore the possibilities. Unlike the original splitter cams, the trangos are made very well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
selkirk Posted June 9, 2005 Share Posted June 9, 2005 Keep us updated on the small splitter designs in the small Trango's. I've been curious how they preform. Also, do they sacrifice much range do to the configuration? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sony Posted June 10, 2005 Author Share Posted June 10, 2005 (edited) I contacted trango, and got a PM from Malcom, the brand manager (president?). I asked him about the complaints on the OLD Flexcams and how unstable they were and he answered: The old FlexCams had the same axle length for all the sizes from 3-8. The new FlexCams have axle lengths that are porportional to the cam size. See the specs here: http://www.trango.com/pdfs/CamSpecs.pdf In addition, the spring tensions are calibrated to the cam size so they have the right feel and resistance to walking. BTW, the new Flexcams came out in Spring 2005. Still no-one's posted here if the new flexcams work as good as C4's in the crag... BTW, 'floppy' cam lobes are pretty frequent on all brands *but* Camalots, which are fixed because of the double axle. Cheers! Edited June 11, 2005 by sony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenderfour Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 About the floppy cams - as a dirtbag aid climber, I have an assortment of cams. The Trangos are the only ones that flop. A quick idea of what I have: DMM, WC Tech Friends, Camalots, HB Flexi-fix, Clog, Metolius, and a couple HB Quadcams. Since most of these are single axle, I would argue that the floppiness has more to do with the springs that trango uses. I found some time to play with the smaller splitter cams from Trango. I set two of the cam lobes in some dirty, loose rock and bounce tested with a normal aider. They all held with my 200+ pound self beating on them. I would avoid too much movement when hanging on half of the cam, but it worked very well for a downward pull. I want to do more "testing" before telling anyone that they are worth while. It looks very promising, but I need to get them on an aid climb instead of a chossheap two feet off the ground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pointy Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 i have the Trango in #'s 4-7. (the rough equivalent of BD .5 - 2). My girlfriend has a mix of old and new BD's. It's true that the lobes on the Trango are a little floppier, especially in the larger sizes. But they are lighter, cheaper, the stem is more flexible, and the sling is doubled, so i rarely need to clip them with a draw. The BD's do feel and look nicer, but i've fallen on both and they both held. The smallest Trango i have has the Splitter design. I bought it to replace an older style Trango that got terminally stuck. It has less range at the bottom end because the lobes can't overlap. It can also be tricky to place. Normally i think of the points of the cam lobes overlapping as an ideal placement. If you strive for something similar with the Splitter design it will put you at the absolute bottom of the range, rendering the cam nearly impossible to clean. The head is narrower than the older style Trango and the BD, but it is the same width as comprably sized Aliens or TCU's. Unless there is some other obvious advantage that i don't see with the Splitter design, i would pick one of those (Alien or TCU) instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sony Posted June 22, 2005 Author Share Posted June 22, 2005 Great to see some feed on the small split cam trangos. I decided to get one myself (#1) to check it out, and I'll revive the thread with my findings too. Since I'm ordering a ton'o gear for me and friends, including trango superflys, Scot'teryx from http://www.questalb.com is cutting me a sweet deal that beats gearexpress or bentgate sales hands down. So far he's been really cool. I'm waiting for the gear Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sony Posted June 28, 2005 Author Share Posted June 28, 2005 (edited) [edit] I added a photo showing the cams side by side: C4 0.4 MC 0.3 TCU #2 FC #1 MC 0.2 MC 0.1 I got the new set of C4's and a #1 flexcam. I also got some micro-camalots. First impression about the flexcam: * 4-splitter head configuration * nice finish and feel * spring slightly softer than C4's. C4 still has the oiled german mechanics feel, vs trango's squeaky yet sturdy trustable feel. * Head is ultra narrow, for same contact surface. Maybe its greatest asset. * stem flexes more than BD, less than Aliens. * The loop is better than the stump end of the old camalots, with a loop and thumb grip. The splitter flexcam heads are shiny while larger offset flexcams have a matte granitty finish. Head width comparison from larger to smaller: - BD micro camalot .3 or C4 .4 - Blue TCU metolius (same width but cams are narrower) - BD micro camalot .2 (but cams take up more width) - Trango flexcam The TCU is larger because the U stem is attached outside the cam heads. otherwise the cam footprint is similar to camalot .2. The camalot is larger than flexcam #1 because cams are offset. Contact surface seems similar on all 3 models, and it holds on granit as proven by the marks on my TCU. I need aliens to compare to later. Edited June 30, 2005 by sony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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