Ice-Sporto Litter

[sexual_chocolate]

I take it you googled that image; I'm curious as to the search parameters you used.

 

Humor me with this information.

[MervGriffin]

I take it you googled that image; I'm curious as to the search parameters you used.

Humor me with this information.

 

Try this: "post-modern uber-babble" and see if your picture comes up. If that doesn't work, try "antagonistic stranger" and "unworthy of humoring".

[pope]

Pope, you made a similar argument where in the Squamish Gondola thread you suggested that those who tolerate or advocate sport climbing at Squamish have no right to complain about a proposed gondola on The Chief. I honestly don't know where you are coming from.

 

To most of us, it is obvious that the impacts associated with climbing (even sport climbing) and gondola's and snowmobiles are different, and that these activities are not necessarily compatible.

 

I bet a high percentage of those who engage in winter recreation in the Alpental Valley highly value the opportunity to go someplace where there are not snowmobiles whizzing by, and that most of these people have had and will in the future have no problem with a mixed climbing crag existing at "Rap Wall" or on another crag nearby. I bet, too, the ski area operators and the USFS would agree because the conflicts in the parking area and along the trail to Source Lake that would be presented by snowmobiles vastly exceed those associated with anything I could ever envision being associated with a climbing crag at Rap Wall.

 

Are you really arguing that if we tolerate bolt intensive climbing we have no logical argument against opening up the same areas to snowmobiling and gondolas?

 

Matt, I think we could work it out...I think we could tolerate snowmobiles in the "Alpental Valley". Take any one of the arguments extended in support of bolting/abandoning gear for great lengths of time at the "Rap Wall", modify it slightly, and I think we could put forward a powerful argument in favor of snowmobiles in the "Alpental Valley".

 

Recall that the Rap Wall isn't in a wilderness area. In fact it's right next to a ski area. Since it is already spoiled, let's allow bolt trails and quick-draws. Well, if the area is already spoiled, why not snowmobiles?

 

The ease of access to the "Alpental Valley" (together with the statements of the preceeding paragraph) mean that the area can/should accomodate a variety of recreational groups. Snowmobiles leave less trace and, therefore, are in one important way less intrusive than sport climbing. Come on guys, there's room for everybody. It's all good, ain't it?

 

The "Alpental Valley" offers not only easy winter access but also the elevation necessary for forming ice. Hence, sporty-mixed climbers would struggle to find a better place to climb. Extending this argument, just think how the elevation and snow pack in the "Alpental Valley" could extend the snowmobile season!

 

BTW, I love Dwayner's suggestion that once snowmobiles are tolerated, it would be consistent with the artifical experience of bolted mixed climbing to catch a ride up to the Rap Wall. Now I'm thinking how cool it would be to have a little Coffee-in-the-Box, drive-through .....that is, snowmobile-through....expresso stand up at the Rap Wall. Maybe the little hotties serving up lattes could retail quick-draws and spare monopoints. They could sell winter-weight polypro T-shirts printed with the message "Going leashless. Allez!"

 

Finally, and more seriously, "Alpental Valley" is not an appropriate name for the Source Lake area. It is not by any means remote, but it does have a wilderness feel to it, regardless of the fact that it's a very short trek out of Alpental. My point is.....and damn it, MattP, I think you know I'm right....sport climbing will turn this little bit of heaven into a circus.

 

Go find a road-cut. Please.