Lies?

[larrythellama]

"They don't want scientific investigation," he charges, "because they're afraid it will prove their patriarchal stories aren't historical." And, in fact, current scholarhip is not especially congenial to Old Testament literalists. There is, essentially, no evidence for the existance of Abraham and other patriarchs, and-despite more than a century of intensive study of Pharoic Egypt-only the barest of wisps of support for the Exodus, the central event in Jewish theology. There are accounts of of Egyptian raids into Palesrine that brought back captives, presumably as slaves, and a dispatch from a border guard in the 12th century B.C., reporting that two people has escaped from Eygot into the Sinai. On the basis of what has been found so far, "there was no Exodus, at least not the hundreds of thousands of people making a miraculous escape across the desert,: Dever says.

 

-William Dever, proffesor emeritus at the U of A.

 

this was taken from Newsweek 8/30/04

 

so why are there so many made up stories in the name of a glorious god? yet these people who follow this docterine so closely use this compassionate god to further their agendas, killing children, women and men. does a compasionate god believe that one interpetation is correct? are not all jesus based religions spawned from one god? why is that christain/jew right is the only way? there is a section of the article stating that the Orothodox Jews disavow the exploration of their graves in an effory to keep down on truth that they have no more right to the holy land then any other people.

 

this all ties into where our country is now. we use god to exercise our presumed right to call a place ours. we use this god to destroy culture and rape the wealth of the area for our benefit.

 

where does this stop?

[Jason_Martin]

Most cultures define their god in such a way that their god always believes as they do. If they feel killing people and taking their land is appropriate, a given culture will redefine what their god believes in order for this to take place in a "moral" fashion.

 

The perfect example is right before us. George W. says that god's on his side, but so does Osama. Millions of people on each side of this given conflict say the other side is wrong and that they're right.

 

As such I believe that it is better to base one's moral code on humanism and not a belief that a given diety wants you to kill the other guy.

 

Jason

[layton]

if I was god, i'd make more mountains with hot chicks everywhere like marmots or snafflehounds and I'd turn the canadian rockies into granite. then I'd make all the canadians exodus to saskatchewan and open up a chain of walmarts ontop of the cheif. alcohol would actaully make you as good a climber you think you are the next morning arfter that late night spray session. and seattle would burn and sink into the earth.

[RobBob]

So how about the deranged Irish ex-priest who fucked up the marathon at the Olympics. I think it would have been a righteous and good thing if the crowd had monkey-stomped that sumbitch and then nailed him to a cross.

[Alpinfox]

Most cultures define their god in such a way that their god always believes as they do. If they feel killing people and taking their land is appropriate, a given culture will redefine what their god believes in order for this to take place in a "moral" fashion.

 

The perfect example is right before us. George W. says that god's on his side, but so does Osama. Millions of people on each side of this given conflict say the other side is wrong and that they're right.

 

As such I believe that it is better to base one's moral code on humanism and not a belief that a given diety wants you to kill the other guy.

 

Jason

 

 

"With God On Our Side"

 

Oh my name it is nothin'

My age it means less

The country I come from

Is called the Midwest

I's taught and brought up there

The laws to abide

And that land that I live in

Has God on its side.

 

Oh the history books tell it

They tell it so well

The cavalries charged

The Indians fell

The cavalries charged

The Indians died

Oh the country was young

With God on its side.

 

Oh the Spanish-American

War had its day

And the Civil War too

Was soon laid away

And the names of the heroes

I's made to memorize

With guns in their hands

And God on their side.

 

Oh the First World War, boys

It closed out its fate

The reason for fighting

I never got straight

But I learned to accept it

Accept it with pride

For you don't count the dead

When God's on your side.

 

When the Second World War

Came to an end

We forgave the Germans

And we were friends

Though they murdered six million

In the ovens they fried

The Germans now too

Have God on their side.

 

I've learned to hate Russians

All through my whole life

If another war starts

It's them we must fight

To hate them and fear them

To run and to hide

And accept it all bravely

With God on my side.

 

But now we got weapons

Of the chemical dust

If fire them we're forced to

Then fire them we must

One push of the button

And a shot the world wide

And you never ask questions

When God's on your side.

 

In a many dark hour

I've been thinkin' about this

That Jesus Christ

Was betrayed by a kiss

But I can't think for you

You'll have to decide

Whether Judas Iscariot

Had God on his side.

 

So now as I'm leavin'

I'm weary as Hell

The confusion I'm feelin'

Ain't no tongue can tell

The words fill my head

And fall to the floor

If God's on our side

He'll stop the next war.

 

-Dylan

[catbirdseat]

if I was god, i'd make more mountains with hot chicks everywhere like marmots or snafflehounds

...and Michael Layton still wouldn't be able to get a date.

[Dru]

lie lie lie... the full moon is rising over dark water and the fools

below are picking up sticks and the man in the gallows lies

permanently waiting for the doctors to come back and tend to him, the

flat earth society is meeting here today, singing happy little lies

and the bright ship humana is sent far away with grave

determination... and no destination, lie lie lie... yeah, nothing

feels better than a spray of clean water and the whistling wind on a

calm summer night but you'd better believe that down in their quarters

the men are holding on for their dear lives, the flat earth society is

somewhere far away, with their candlesticks and compasses and the

bright ship humana is well on its way with grave determination... and

no destination, lie lie lie, ad inifinitum

[MervGriffin]

Very, very simplistic, Mr. Llama. This whole matter of the historical accuracy of the Bible is a long-standing, derisive and continuing debate. At opposite ends are scholars often characterized as "minimalist" (those who argue that the Old Testament/Hebrew Bible is of little historical value) and the "maximalists" who see the Bible as quite historically credible. Both frequently use archaeological evidence to back their points. And there are lots of people in-between these two viewpoints. Many involved on various sides of the debate are very bright people. You can get a taste of this debate by reading a few issues of

 

Biblical Archaeology Review

 

Both Egypt and Biblical archaeology are areas where I have conducted professional research and I tend toward the maximalist position. Folks need to keep in mind that archaeology is not always the appropriate tool for solving the many mysteries of the Bible. In fact, it is often an abused tool used to "prove" or "disprove" this or that in inappropriate ways.

William Dever's got an opinion? Of course he does. Good for him.

But check out this controversial new volume by a distinquished Egyptologist and Biblical scholar, Professor Kenneth Kitchen: "On the Reliability of the Old Testament."

 

shalom, Merv

 

P.S. And by the way, the name of the people "Israel" is indeed attested in at least one Egyptian text: the stele of Merneptah (c.1224 B.C.), listed as a group of people already in Canaan when attacked by Merneptah's army along with a bunch of other conquerees. I just bring that up because Egypt was mentioned and there are those who will even go as far as to say that Israel as a people are not to be found until relatively late.

[Dru]

 

Not historically reliable? Rubbish! Can show tunes this good NOT be divinely inspired

[RobBob]

We're always talking about religion on the macro level. How about on the micro level? Like, religion and how it affects your life?

 

An example of what I don't like about religion as it intersects with my life:

-the sinking feeling I recently got when I heard one of my kids' school administrators drop a little religious reference (a thinly-veiled feeler to see if/where we 'go to church')

 

What I like about 'my' religion:

-on a personal level, it keeps me more centered. It focuses me back on fairness, grace, caring about others in a way that agnostic logic cannot.

-it's there at the level I choose to live it. I'm glad to have it. It offers security in times of stress.

 

It may be , but I've thought about giving up on the concept of God...and I've decided that it would be a mistake.

[MervGriffin]

 

Not historically reliable? Rubbish! Can show tunes this good NOT be divinely inspired

 

Actually, the 1999 television version of "Joseph" (available on DVD) with Donny Osmond is considered a masterpiece.

 

PBS Great Performances

 

 

This is my all-time favorite, however:

starring Ted Neeley.

[Dru]

Golden Turkey Awards by Harry and Michael Medved says:

 

Since the beginning of the motion-picture industry, Hollywood moguls have noted the worldwide popularity of Jesus Christ and tried to capitalize on it for their own ends. The problem was that many of these attempts provoked charges of blasphemy and bad taste. Cecil B. De Mille seemed to find a successful formula in his silent classic, “King of Kings,” but that film nearly ruined the career of its star, H.B. Warner. After his appearance as the Man from Nazareth, producers felt uncomfortable casting him as a mere mortal . . .

 

To offer the public a walking, talking Jesus seemed to be asking for trouble. So began the holy tradition of presenting Christ in Biblical epics as a long-haired bit-player with his back turned to the camera (as in Ben Hur) . . .

Not until the 1950s, with the production of a church-sponsored film called “Day Of Triumph, did Jesus show his face in full view in a major Hollywood talking production. This is one movie breakthrough that should never have been made. What followed was a series of mindless assaults on religious sensibility. Christ may forgive the stars and producers of these films (including Jeffrey Hunter of Star Trek as Christ in a 1961 remake of “King Of Kings” that one reviewer called “I Was A Teenage Jesus”) but we, the viewing audience, cannot.

 

In preparing the big-budget film version of this celebrated rock opera, the producers toyed with a number of unconventional casting ideas. Originally Mick Jagger was supposed to take the part of Jesus. Then David Cassidy was proposed, and finally, John Lennon. After all, hadn’t Lennon stunned the world years before with his announcement that the Beatles were more popular than Christ? When none of these big-name rockers panned out, the producers finally settled for Mr. Ted Neeley — a third-rate warbler from Ranger, Texas, who had done his time in L.A. supper clubs and Grand 0l’ Opry warm-up bands before landing this, his big break. Neeley was so conscious of this rare opportunity to display his acting skills, that he is on the verge of hysteria most of the time he appears onscreen. His performance is enough to make us wish that the filmmakers had gone with John Lennon — or even Ringo Starr. As Paul D. Zimmerman observed in Newsweek, Neeley’s “Jesus often recalls Charles Manson.” He shrieks, pouts, grits his teeth, rolls his eyes, and twitches intermittently. As Bruce Williamson of Playboy enthusiastically declared, Neeley’s “portrayal of Christ ought to fix him permanently in public memory as the Screamin’ Jesus.” In one memorable scene, he grimaces and whines as hundreds of lepers, covered with slimy rag outfits, crawl out from their caves begging to be healed. His obscene and idiotic portrayal is only occasionally overshadowed by Carl Anderson’s performance as Judas. At one point, this black singer-actor, dressed in a sparkling white disco outfit, boogies down to the beat of the song “Jesus Christ Superstar” while his dancing soul sisters in silvery bikini tops magically appear behind him. To complete this feast for the eyes, a series of bright neon crosses appear, and begin waving back and forth in time to the music. Small wonder that Newsweek granted this film immediate recognition as “one of the true fiascos of modern cinema.”

 

Neeley richly deserves (the Golden Turkey) award, but it should be recognized that he received plenty of help from his director, Norman Jewison. In an interview in Playboy, Jewison spoke movingly about his approach to this classic bad film:

“We could have been vulgar. We could have played this for cheap. Nothing simpler. Guaranteed socko at the box office. We could have been really filthy. But we weren’t. For instance . . . half the apostles are gay, right, and what about Jesus and Judas? . . . A big, wet smackeroo, right on the lips. How about that? Oh yeah, we could have been vulgar all right. We could have milked it for every grab in the book. But we didn’t. Instead, we decided to make it beautiful . . . We made it into a spiritual experience and it’s beautiful, and Jesus is beautiful, the kids are beautiful, it’s going to be a beautiful film. People are going to see it in drive-ins and neighborhood nowhere theaters and they’re going to be moved by it. People who were never moved by this story before. People who always thought that Jesus Christ was some kind of schmuck. They’re going to see something beautiful and they’re going to cry. They won’t be able to help themselves When you really come to think of it, we’re doing Him a favor.”

What more can we say? Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.

[MervGriffin]

Hey Dru.

 

I found another perspective of JCS from a source that a guy like you would probably respect:

 

The Bitchslap Review.

 

Check it out:

 

Bitchslap Review: Jesus Christ Superstar, the movie.

 

A sample:

"Jesus Christ Superstar is one of those rare films that not only entertains but also has the benefit of according a good deal of its viewers with a life changing experience. Released in the early 1970's, this film draws from two historical periods: the 1960's and the period which would later become to be known as 33 AD. While the 30 AD's did not have a great impact on the young persons of the 70's it is quite apparent that the 60's did. And it was with this thought in mind that the director Norman Jewison adapted the successful Broadway play of the same name into one of the greatest films ever made...As well as bringing the ancient text of the Bible to life this film also entertains. The singing is unsurpassed by any film in cinematic history, with songs by two legends in the industry, Andrew Lloyd Webber and Tim Rice. And the tie in with ancient Israel and modern day times is brilliant..."

 

Watch it yourself and come to your own conclusions.