lI1|1! Posted January 13, 2004 Share Posted January 13, 2004 (edited) (a solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short ) i think we are brutish animals that are social in nature and are able to cooperate for the benefit of the group. often that doesn't need to involve other people losing. if it does involve other people losing the long term pros and cons need to be carefully considered - it turns out we all need good neighbors from time to time. Edited January 13, 2004 by lI1|1! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billygoat Posted January 13, 2004 Share Posted January 13, 2004 Scott, I hope you're not right but that is a strong possibility. Certainly seems to be the the current picture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrambler Posted January 13, 2004 Share Posted January 13, 2004 Screw it. I'll just take some sunshine and rock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_harpell Posted January 13, 2004 Share Posted January 13, 2004 Muslims and Jews together? I think not. The europeans are anti-semitic enough. You think that we can just turn around a few thousand years worth of hate? Just doesn't work that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billygoat Posted January 13, 2004 Share Posted January 13, 2004 I'll definitely take the sunshine and rock part about now! This weather is getting to be a drag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_harpell Posted January 13, 2004 Share Posted January 13, 2004 yeh yeh! I'm feeinin' to get outside! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billygoat Posted January 13, 2004 Share Posted January 13, 2004 Yeah, I don't think that we'll see it in our lifetime, but we can help it along it's way. I think the corporations and global capital will go along way to unifying the world. I just hope the model gets more positive and life oriented. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrambler Posted January 13, 2004 Share Posted January 13, 2004 i think we are brutish animals that are social in nature and are able to cooperate for the benefit of the group. often that doesn't need to involve other people losing. if it does involve other people losing the long term pros and cons need to be carefully considered - it turns out we all need good neighbors from time to time. So you're a believer in a win-win situation. I tend to see life as more of a zero-sum game where someone has to lose something for another to gain. It's a harsh way of seeing the world and discounts the existence of compromise but it's how I see the majority of interactions. I think seeing the world through 'infinite potential win-win situation' glasses is just more New Age mumbo-jumbo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billygoat Posted January 13, 2004 Share Posted January 13, 2004 We should hold our sacrifices a little more sacred is what I am thinking. A cow doesn't think it is winning when it get the zap. It would serve us to rethink what "return on investment" means and how it looks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrambler Posted January 13, 2004 Share Posted January 13, 2004 (edited) Ya. BTW, Scott H, Arabs are also Semites. So anti-semitism is hatred directed at either Jews, Arabs or both. How 'bout using the term, anti-Zionism? or is that too loaded? Edited January 13, 2004 by scrambler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Posted January 13, 2004 Share Posted January 13, 2004 "God, Guts and Guns." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billygoat Posted January 13, 2004 Share Posted January 13, 2004 Finally, the three G's Way to get to the kernal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrambler Posted January 13, 2004 Share Posted January 13, 2004 what about girls? Give us your women. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_harpell Posted January 13, 2004 Share Posted January 13, 2004 Yeah, I don't think that we'll see it in our lifetime, but we can help it along it's way. I think the corporations and global capital will go along way to unifying the world. I just hope the model gets more positive and life oriented. global capitol will never work. Mainly because many dont agree with capitolism. You think that the middle eastern countries are gonna sign on to a business deal with the likes of the U.S. and Israel? It would be nice, but it just aint gonna happen. We are just to different to create the international community that looks so good on paper. When a religious group is intent on killing anyone that is not in allignment with their principles, it kinda makes unification difficult. not to mention when there are dozens of such groups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billygoat Posted January 13, 2004 Share Posted January 13, 2004 Mars needs 'em. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lI1|1! Posted January 13, 2004 Share Posted January 13, 2004 i think we are brutish animals that are social in nature and are able to cooperate for the benefit of the group. often that doesn't need to involve other people losing. if it does involve other people losing the long term pros and cons need to be carefully considered - it turns out we all need good neighbors from time to time. So you're a believer in a win-win situation. I tend to see life as more of a zero-sum game where someone has to lose something for another to gain. It's a harsh way of seeing the world and discounts the existence of compromise but it's how I see the majority of interactions. I think seeing the world through 'infinite potential win-win situation' glasses is just more New Age mumbo-jumbo. i certainly don't believe everything is win-win; i don't smoke crack. but i think there is win-win out there, and i also think wealth can be created. (that wealth is created is i think the basic thing karl marx failed to understand.) i also think if you fuck your nieghbor in the ass you can expect the same thing in return. i also think somebody that screws you doesn't need to be your nieghbor (unless of course you're trask). cooperation is a great thing scrambler, you should try it some time. do you think "patriotism" invloves cooperation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrambler Posted January 13, 2004 Share Posted January 13, 2004 Mars needs guitars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billygoat Posted January 13, 2004 Share Posted January 13, 2004 Oh, it will be a patchwork quilt with a couple tears in it to be sure but governments all over the world have already signed on the dotted line. I feel that capitalism is going to have to change to embrace community based principals and goals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrambler Posted January 13, 2004 Share Posted January 13, 2004 --snip--...and i also think wealth can be created. (that wealth is created is i think the basic thing karl marx failed to understand.)--snip-- I don't understand what that means, 'create wealth'. Greenspan mentioned that once but isn't it really the illusion of wealth? I understand the 'concentration' of wealth but not 'creation' of wealth. So are you talkin about an increase in production or lowering of prices? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catbirdseat Posted January 13, 2004 Share Posted January 13, 2004 Wealth and money are created all the time by the Federal Reserve Bank. Business activity amplifies every dollar, each time it changes hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billygoat Posted January 13, 2004 Share Posted January 13, 2004 Wealth as I understand it is raw materials combined with labor to make something useful. Money is created when people borrow it. More simply put, money is a means to repay debt because there isn't enough raw materials and labor to do so. Basically Greenspan is saying that the emperor is wearing no clothes when he say things like "Irrational Exuberance". Of course, he used to read a lot of Ann Rand too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lI1|1! Posted January 13, 2004 Share Posted January 13, 2004 --snip--...and i also think wealth can be created. (that wealth is created is i think the basic thing karl marx failed to understand.)--snip-- I don't understand what that means, 'create wealth'. Greenspan mentioned that once but isn't it really the illusion of wealth? I understand the 'concentration' of wealth but not 'creation' of wealth. So are you talkin about an increase in production or lowering of prices? plant a seed. let it grow. the dried bud is now worth $300 an ounce. capiche? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_harpell Posted January 13, 2004 Share Posted January 13, 2004 Western goverments have done this. In the end, it will be the East versus the West once again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billygoat Posted January 13, 2004 Share Posted January 13, 2004 Kind of like the final conflict, Armegeddon, Ragnok.... Nostradamus, the bible etc., I think, are just following the less desirable traits of human nature to their ugly conclusions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billygoat Posted January 13, 2004 Share Posted January 13, 2004 I would like to see capitalism recognize the health of communities, the people and ecosystem, as wealth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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