HRoark Posted January 13, 2004 Posted January 13, 2004 This came out of a few posts that chuck wrote in another thread. What is your definition of patriotism? What is it based on? Discuss... Quote
allthumbs Posted January 13, 2004 Posted January 13, 2004 Love of and devotion to one's country. Quote
Billygoat Posted January 13, 2004 Posted January 13, 2004 "Partriotism" is the anachronistic rallying cry of nationalism. GET OVER IT. This is one planet and we are all family. If we don't start owning our reality, we are going to end up eating each others children Quote
catbirdseat Posted January 13, 2004 Posted January 13, 2004 I think it is unfortunate that there are those that would have you believe that to be a patriot one must support the government unconditionally. I strongly disagree with this. A patriot acts in what he or she believes to be in the best interest of the country. These acts may actually be against his or her self-interest. Case in point: The ACLU recently acted in behalf of Rush Limbaugh's privacy rights to his medical information. Rush Limbaugh is no friend of the ACLU, but they defended him because they defend the Bill of Rights which benefits all people. This was a patriotic act. Quote
HRoark Posted January 13, 2004 Author Posted January 13, 2004 (edited) "Partriotism" is the anachronistic rallying cry of nationalism. GET OVER IT. This is one planet and we are all family. If we don't start owning our reality, we are going to end up eating each others children No need to beat people over the head, thanks for sharing. So, are you saying you hold no allegiance to your home country? Just wanting some clarification. Edited January 13, 2004 by HRoark Quote
HRoark Posted January 13, 2004 Author Posted January 13, 2004 I think it is unfortunate that there are those that would have you believe that to be a patriot one must support the government unconditionally. I strongly disagree with this. A patriot acts in what he or she believes to be in the best interest of the country. These acts may actually be against his or her self-interest. Case in point: The ACLU recently acted in behalf of Rush Limbaugh's privacy rights to his medical information. Rush Limbaugh is no friend of the ACLU, but they defended him because they defend the Bill of Rights which benefits all people. This was a patriotic act. So, the definition of patriotic acts, per se, varies with the individual? What about taking the Constitution into account? Or the supporting theories, beliefs, and reasons of the Founding Fathers in setting up things as they did? Quote
Billygoat Posted January 13, 2004 Posted January 13, 2004 No, I hold no allegiance to some governing body full of people I do not know. Give me one good reason... Quote
minx Posted January 13, 2004 Posted January 13, 2004 yes, the definition of what consititutes a patriotic act does vary with the individual. some people consider protesting the war in iraq to be unpatriotic. i see it is as a very patriotic thing since i feel that it would've been best for us to stay out of iraq. Quote
Billygoat Posted January 13, 2004 Posted January 13, 2004 I hope this picture is going to be in good taste Trask Quote
scrambler Posted January 13, 2004 Posted January 13, 2004 Hinges on what your response to country is. Country: region, the people in the region, the political entity of a region--implies some cultural bond. Gibson's The Patriot was a revolutionary. At what point does a splinter become an automonous entity that exerts stronger bonds than its parent entity? If the parent entity subverts the original intent (social contract??) then does it validate the offspring entity? In my understanding, the US constitution is the focus of the relationship of the people and the government that represents them. And, liberty is the basis for the establishment of the constitution (freedom is more a state of mind as opposed to liberty). This Globalism crap should go down the toilet. Quote
scrambler Posted January 13, 2004 Posted January 13, 2004 Do you invite all the riffraff into your family? Quote
catbirdseat Posted January 13, 2004 Posted January 13, 2004 So, the definition of patriotic acts, per se, varies with the individual? What about taking the Constitution into account? Or the supporting theories, beliefs, and reasons of the Founding Fathers in setting up things as they did? To the extent that people disagree on what is in the best interest of the country, then yes, patriotic acts vary. In his warped mind, Timothy McVeigh thought he was a patriot by bombing the Federal Building in Oklahoma City. With regard to the Constitution it is important to consider the intent of the Founding Fathers, but also to realize that it is a "living document". The idea that one document could countenance every possibility into the infinite future seems quite ludicrous to me. Quote
Billygoat Posted January 13, 2004 Posted January 13, 2004 Riffraff.? Oh you mean the poor, uneducated people that make less money than me...? Quote
Doctorb Posted January 13, 2004 Posted January 13, 2004 Getting wasted and beating the fuck out of someone because they are different. Quote
Billygoat Posted January 13, 2004 Posted January 13, 2004 Do you invite all the riffraff into your family? Yeah, were are all related unless you come from another planet but even then there would be some close links Quote
minx Posted January 13, 2004 Posted January 13, 2004 Do you invite all the riffraff into your family? no, they're family. they weren't invited. they came with the package. i was reminded recently just how much riff raff there is in my family. i was also reminded that underneath a rather displeasing exterior, some of them are truly good people. Quote
scrambler Posted January 13, 2004 Posted January 13, 2004 No. I'm implying that there should be a common bond. Could be genetic, social, political, language, religious, etc. In other words, I don't have enough commonalities with most strangers to let them be a part of my family. Same goes with country. There aren't enough commonalities to consider the world one entity. Now for purposes such as discussing global warming, sure, I could discuss the world as an interconnected system because we all share the atmosphere and to some extent the oceans. But don't tell me I should accept another country uncritically if their interests are opposed to the ideals of my country. Quote
lI1|1! Posted January 13, 2004 Posted January 13, 2004 "Partriotism" is the anachronistic rallying cry of nationalism. GET OVER IT. This is one planet and we are all family. If we don't start owning our reality, we are going to end up eating each others children nicely put if democracy in the U.S. can be a tool to serve the humanistic needs of a broader good (as it has in the past - i.e. getting rid of fascism in germany say) then i am willing to be a patriot. if it's just a game of creating good things for assholes that happen to be u.s. citizens at the expense of the rest of the human species then i'm not a patriot. i don't believe in that shit, don't think it works, and don't need it. Quote
Billygoat Posted January 13, 2004 Posted January 13, 2004 Getting wasted and beating the fuck out of someone because they are different. Doctorb you bring up a good point; this is the underlying impulse of nationalism. Quote
Billygoat Posted January 13, 2004 Posted January 13, 2004 I agree Scrambler. A unifying concept will be hard to come by and even harder to wrap our heads around. Quote
minx Posted January 13, 2004 Posted January 13, 2004 my definitation of patriotism... i don't think it involves specific borders. i'm always fascinated by the olympics. people from different countries competing against each other. this seems so odd and irrelevant to me. borders in many parts of the world change often. they're really just arbitrary lines on a map. it doesn't make the people who live on one side it very much different than the people on the other side. the ideals and concepts set forth in our consitution are worth supporting. my patriotism doesn't relate to our country as a geographic entity but rather the ideas by which we govern that area. Quote
catbirdseat Posted January 13, 2004 Posted January 13, 2004 No. I'm implying that there should be a common bond. Could be genetic, social, political, language, religious, etc. In other words, I don't have enough commonalities with most strangers to let them be a part of my family. Same goes with country. There aren't enough commonalities to consider the world one entity. Now for purposes such as discussing global warming, sure, I could discuss the world as an interconnected system because we all share the atmosphere and to some extent the oceans. But don't tell me I should accept another country uncritically if their interests are opposed to the ideals of my country. What about these commonalities: All men are created equal. All men have a right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Quote
lI1|1! Posted January 13, 2004 Posted January 13, 2004 No. I'm implying that there should be a common bond. Could be genetic, social, political, language, religious, etc. In other words, I don't have enough commonalities with most strangers to let them be a part of my family. Same goes with country. There aren't enough commonalities to consider the world one entity. Now for purposes such as discussing global warming, sure, I could discuss the world as an interconnected system because we all share the atmosphere and to some extent the oceans. But don't tell me I should accept another country uncritically if their interests are opposed to the ideals of my country. by your definition scrambler, if i don't think you and i have enough in common then then we don't need to be part of the same meaningful collective, so i don't need to be patriotic. so "patriotism" might be defined as a meaningless contrivance and any polititian who peddles can be rejected as pushing a bullshit agenda. Quote
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