layton Posted January 9, 2004 Posted January 9, 2004 A shoulder surgeon I climbed with this winter told me that side raises and int/ext rotation exercises are bad for your shoulders. I didn't have time to discuss this with him, but I know side raises at least hurt my shoulders. Anyone want to support or debunk this statement? Quote
willstrickland Posted January 10, 2004 Posted January 10, 2004 I only know what worked for me. I was having problems in one shoulder for about 3 years. I tried rest, stretching, massage, rotator cuff exercises like the int/ext rotation. What eventually worked for me was strengthening the entire shoulder through military press on a smith rack and machine, bench press, and incline bench press. I think part of my problem was muscle imbalances where the medial and frontal deltoid and pec was much weaker than the rear delt and lat/rhomboid etc and it cause instability and levering on the joint. It feels almost normal again after 12 weeks of weights. Quote
lummox Posted January 10, 2004 Posted January 10, 2004 side raises with a bent elbow will keep you from tweaking. with the arms forward about 15 degrees and thumbs down is a way to prevent and/or overcome tennis elbow problems. but hey i aint a 'shoulder surgeon'. just someone who eliminated shoulder problems with exercise. it is just my theory so dont believe me. Quote
layton Posted January 10, 2004 Author Posted January 10, 2004 i'm not advocating what the dude said, it just made me want to understand more....he also said military presses were bad too. I know I'm weaker than a little girl when it comes to side raises and military presses. Quote
lummox Posted January 10, 2004 Posted January 10, 2004 i'm not advocating what the dude said, it just made me want to understand more....he also said military presses were bad too. i guess any exercise is bad if you get hurt doing it(?) use a light enough weight so your form is perfect and i cant see how you hurt yourself. build up your strength and move to heavier weights. whats the problem? the idea with wieghtlifting is to isolate a muscle group and work it. basic theory that has been proven effective. just ask jack lalanne. I know I'm weaker than a little girl when it comes to side raises and military presses. dude. dont be dissing little girls like that. Quote
Dr_Flash_Amazing Posted January 13, 2004 Posted January 13, 2004 Probably depends on what, if anything, is wrong with your shoulder(s) to begin with. If you've seen a diagram of the shoulder, you know it's a complicated thingus, with all types of ligaments and tendons and crisscrossing shit packed into relatively tight quarters, making it the handy-dandy joint that it is. Point being, with so many things hap'nin' in there, a lot of things could potentially be wrong, and not necessarily be easy to diagnose at that. Anyway, to further confuse the discussion, DFA's shoulder surgeon (OHSU's upper extremity specialist) recommended the internal and external rotation exercises, as did DFA's physical therapist. Those exercises were in fact recommended to the Doctor both when the shoulder doc thought DFA had a rotator cuff infury AND after Mr. Surgeon figured out that DFA needed surgery for a labral tear (SLAP lesion, to use the orthopod's parlance). Make of that what you will. If there's nothing acutely wrong with your shoulder, though, and you're not doing exercises that cause you pain, and you're doing them carefully and conscientiously, there probably aren't many that are "bad" for you. Unless maybe you're only focusing on certain muscles and not balancing things out, in which case you're asking for an injury. Blah blah blah, be careful. Quote
Courtenay Posted January 14, 2004 Posted January 14, 2004 Long and short of it is this: if your rotator cuff muscles are weak, you're going to need to do rotator cuff exercises. If you are unbalanced (read: more vertical pulling -- from climbing -- than anything else) you're setting yourself up for shoulder injuries that may or may not be helped by rotator cuff exercises. Lateral raises with straight arms (locked elbows) are going to be painful for most people, but the suggestion to bend the elbows slightly, only lift to shoulder level, and keep hands slightly in front of the body should help (more like "L-raises"). A "bad" shoulder exercise FOR YOU is one that makes you feel pain -- simply changing something about it (range of motion, hand position, body position" may be enough to make it feasible to complete that very same exercise that used to cause you trouble. And if you DO have shoulder issues, I'd suggest avoiding lat pull downs BEHIND the head as those also seem to be troublesome for many painful shoulder conditions -- then again, for others it is not contraindicated at all. Quote
Peter_Puget Posted January 15, 2004 Posted January 15, 2004 (edited) Last night on UWTV a Dr. was giving a talk on shoulders. He was explicitly asked what excercises were bad and he demonstrated one he would not do. It was basically front/lateral raises with the hands above the shoulder to straight up. Edited January 15, 2004 by Peter_Puget Quote
Courtenay Posted January 21, 2004 Posted January 21, 2004 Well, I must admit I have never done or had anyone do that particular one. Nor, in fact, have I ever seen anyone do it! So that must be a good sign. Quote
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