Leg training strategy dilemma

[willstrickland]

Alright, I'm about to transition from a high rep base periodization phase to a low rep strength/power phase. I've got a question about how to incorporate leg power training while keeping my cardio workouts. Here's the deal:

 

In the base I was doing cardio workouts 3 times per week, staying strictly aerobic, at a fairly low intensity (70-75% HR Max) and the only additional leg work being high set/high reps on the hip adduction/abduction. Upper body work was high sets and reps. Typically 5-6 sets of 12 reps in each exercise.

 

In the next phase, I'll be doing upper body sets in the 3-4 rep range. I want to keep 3 cardio workouts, with one being a long/easy "overdistance" type day, usually Sundays. But, I want to add leg work such as leg press, squat, heavy calf raises, etc. My cardio training typically relies heavily on the legs to generate the workload (bikes, stairsmaster, etc).

 

I need some suggestions on how to add the leg strength exercises without overloading the legs from the cardio/strength combo. Keep in mind that I'll be altering my cardio workouts to include add some interval type workouts on at least one of the 3 cardio workouts, using sustained anaerobic threshold work, V02 interval work, etc.

 

who's got the knowledge?

[Mtguide]

You don't give your age,which is an important factor in determining recovery time.But it can be fairly easy to slip into overtraining with leg work because the legs,being the largest muscle group in the body,work the entire body more than you might think.

 

Training in the range of 3-4 reps a set is usually heavy weight,and recent research is that depending on age,body type(endo-,meso-,ectomorph;no one is strictly any of these,but they are general indicative types)and overall conditioning,it can take as much as 9 to 11 days to effect a full recovery from a(yes,that's just ONE) heavy leg workout.It depends on the number of sets you do as well.

 

At any rate,the idea is to train,not over- or under-,but OPTIMALLY.Do what you need,but no more.After all,the muscles grow and stengthen when they rest,not while you're lifting.The workout tears muscle fiber down,and also has a very definite,identifiable(but temporary) effect on immune system function.Adequate recovery time is absolutely essential;my experience from over 25 years of doing my own training,as well as being certified(ACE) since 1992,is that most people tend to way overtrain,the younger the more likely to do so.

 

So, a basic suggestion for those who are progressing with their development and want to add more power/strength benefit is to ease into it gradually and keep a careful watch on resting heart rate(lay in bed for 5 minutes when you first wake up,then check pulse;a rise of 8-10 beats per min is a sign to back off-you're on a slide into overtraining) and pay attention to any excessive muscle soreness or stiffness,as well as general energy/vitality level.As for the workouts themselves,an excellent principle is to alternate heavy days with light days; and I would generally go heavy on legs no more than once a week at the max,and usually adhere to the 9-day full recovery cycle.Then the next leg day would be the light one.And,"light" means no more than 70% of the weight you used on your heavy day,and it could mean fewer sets if you're still not feeling fully recovered.

 

And when you do your heavy leg day also depends on what you're doing as far as climbing,skiing,etc.If you're going to go out on the weekend and do a backcountry ski tour with a fairly complete pack,or do a strenuous mixed alpine climb,you don't want to be doing your heavy leg day on Wed. or Thurs.,or even Monday of the week before;you will have done it no less than 9 days before your climb,if you want to be fully rested and up to snuff for the climb.Take a page from marathoners and ironman/triathlon elites,who taper off as they approach 2-3 weeks out from their event,with a week of almost complete rest,very very light,if any training at all,of the week immediately preceding the event.Read Peter Croft's little book,"Lightweight Alpine Climbing"(Stackpole Books,1996)for an excellent perspective on training,including his opinion of the value of weight training for climbing.Croft refers to the example of Reinhold Messner,who did very little power training--pretty hard to argue with that guy's success.But there's more to it than that,of course,so make sure to read the whole chapter on training.

 

Another very,very important reason for alternating heavy and light days is physiological-mechanical,and that has to do with remembering what keeps the muscles where they are and enables them to do their job: tendons.Muscles,with their profusion of highly oxygenated tissue rich in red blood cells,tend to get stronger with low-rep,heavy weight training;tendons,composed of more dense and less well-oxygenated fibrous white tissue,require higher reps with lighter weight to gain and maintain strength,and they also tend to take longer to recover than muscle.So it's absolutely imperative to incorporate light days into the schedule to keep muscle strength from getting way ahead,which,if you allow it to continue,can result in tendonitis or even rupture.

 

Recommended reading:

 

The Outdoor Athlete-Steve Ilg

Climbing:Training for Peak Performance-Clyde Soles

Conditioning for Outdoor Fitness-Davi Musnick,M.D.& Mark Pierce,A.T.C.

Extreme Alpinism:Climbing Light,Fast,and High-Mark Twight

Flash Training-Eric Horst

 

Well,hope this helps;pretty good stack of homework you got there,so get to studying,and believe me--sometime,somewhere,out there in the high and wild--there WILL be a quiz.

 

[willstrickland]

I'm 30.

 

I agree that most people, especially in their 20s tend toward overtraining. I certainly do/did.

 

I already monitor my waking pulse and chart it as well as my hours of sleep, quality of sleep, appetite, training willingness, and competitive drive. I adjust my training/rest days accordingly. My biggest factor these days is getting enough sleep. I've found I need about 8 1/2 for optimal recovery, but I tend to only get around 7 during the week.

 

My perspective with the tendons/muscles is that periodization already incorporates light phases as well as tapering at the end of a cycle and complete rest after the peak phase. That is when the tendons can "catch up" in development. Additionally, the long easy cardio days are "built in" easy leg days. My 3 rep phases usually only last for 12 workouts or so. That ends up being about a month. However, I've also read plenty of running coaches who advocate easy/hard alternating days.

 

I've read 4 of the 5 books you recommend and others, including quite a few triathlon books.

 

I think Horst is mostly full of shit. His newest "innovation" is nothing more than putting on a weight belt and doing laps on a systems board alternating grips for each set. Add a catchy acronym, and market the shit out of it...hold sets, books, personal coaching.

 

Twight has good info, but in his cardio training recommendations he ignores one VERY important factor. The HR Max for each exercise is different! You cannot get your HR to the same level on the bike as you can running, swimming won't even go as high as biking. Muscle size involved and incidental muscle use has alot to do with it. I can get mine to about 190 running, 185 biking. Using the same max HR to calculate the training load (i.e. target HR) for different exercises will put you into different training zones. Also, there is a phenomena called cardiac drift where your HR will increase during a workout at the same workload. Scientists believe it's due mainly to dehydration setting in. So maintaing the same HR over a long-ish cardio workout (anything over 30-40 minutes) will require a decreasing workload and will not supply the ideal training stimulus. Personally, I think this effect is small enough to ignore. I've done enough constant workload sessions on the rower, stairmaster, and bike with a HR monitor to know that the cardiac drift doesn't affect me too much...at least not up to the first hour.

 

Unfortunately, I've torn up finger tendons five times. The primary factor was a relentless bouldering regimen without adequate time for the tendons to repair and catch up. I could blame it on the actual incident when the tears occured, but that would be blaming the symptoms instead of the cause. I should have spent more time running laps on routes than bouldering to failure. Live and learn. The last one was about 20 months ago and it's still not right...may never be right again. I'm very leery of overtraining these days. Especially since I rarely get shut down by a hard crux move, it's always PE or plain endurance that gets me.

 

Sounds like your recommendation is one power workout every 10th day with the normal cardio leg stuff in between, and adjusting the schedule for HR and climbing/skiiing days where you get a workout anyway.

[jon]

Will I'll write more when I have time, but I just finished 4 months of serious leg strength training and what I can tell you is if you have a good plan and stick to it, give yourself rest and recover well, you will make remarkable gains, at least I did. The problem though is that when you are lifting heavy you will feel like shit in your cardio, for instance riding your bike.

 

Fuck those Alpine climbing books. If there is one book you should read it's a muscle recovery book by Dr. Ed Burke, search amazon.com.

 

PM me your email addy, I've got a PDF that I think you will enjoy.

[glassgowkiss]

2 things, first of all monitor your resting heart rate (take your reading before you move out of bed). if it is going up you are overtraining.

the best leg excercise i found was cramponing up 50-60 deree slopes. killer combo for strength and aerobic fitness. more fun too. i mean, unless you are a competitive downhill skier how much power do you need? (specially for climbing)

add some core excerices. a fitness trainer designed a program once for me. most of the excercises i had to do using one leg, to force core muscles to fire. had to go down with loads about 30-40%. but in reality i felt much, much stronger, as i wasn't able to compensate, i had to keep perfect form.

[jon]

Ok Will I've found some time.

 

I have played and play a whole bunch of different sports and activities from co-rec volleyball to Div I Football, and as I get older and wiser and my body isn't as forgiving I've changed my philosophies on how to train. This is based on coaching, reading, knowledge from my profession, and most of all experience. I don't claim to know more then someone, I just know what has worked for me.

 

As far as strengthening legs here is what I've learned. First and foremost you have to have a goal. Doesn't make sense to kill your knees doing heavy squats if you are just trying to increase your muscular endurance. So figure out exactly what you want out of it. For instance my goal for my last four months was to get my squat max around 400 and I did that. When you are developing your plan around your goal make sure the exercises you are doing make sense for what you are trying to accomplish, i.e. doing exercises that are close to the movements your would be doing. For instance when I squat my feet are shoulder width apart knees straight forward. Theoretically this is the "harder" way to do it but it is actually easier on your knees and has my legs spaced just like they would be if i was pedaling a bike or hiking. After I develop the strength I will develop the power by doing exercises on the bike and hiking with a heavy pack. Remember that all of this is just my opinion.

 

My big thing I'm into right now, well one of them at least, is recovery, that's why I recommended that book. I won't even loan that book to my friends because I constantly am referencing it. Getting stronger basically boils down to stressing the muscles and letting them recover. If they don't recover they don't get stronger. By maximizing your recovery, like accelerating amino acid intake and glycogen regeneration post workout, you can get either stronger or have to do less to get there, or even both. What's great about recovery is that you can incorporate it into your daily life, literally maximizing your potential by just making simple changes like hitting your peak insulin response right after your workout. Another thing which kind of falls in the recover thing is if I feel like crap, either with a cold or my body is just really worn down, or I haven't eaten properly during the day, I don't do my workout because it's not damaging my body more then it can repair itself.

 

Something I am big into is going into your lifting with a fairly developed cardio capacity. There are many reasons for this; ligament strengthening, mitochondria development, muscle cell wall strengthening, and capillary development. By having this you decrease your chance for injury and increase the ability of your muscles to recover and make gains, especially with the capillary development because the more developed it is, the easier it is to bring in the nutrients and flush out the toxins.

 

My program for this fall and winter which I'm finished with now went something like this. I spent 4 weeks 3 times per week just preparing my body for the lifting, so I started VERY light and moved up about ten pounds per workout. Here I was doing about 3 sets of 5 with the last set at 10, and about every workout that 10 became less by one, so by the time I reached the end where I was going to do a max strength test I my reps was around 3. The next three weeks I did a thing that supposedly helps with neurological recruitment of muscle fibers. It basically is doing a set of 4 light and then a set of 2 heavy and alternating back and for about 7 sets on each lift, increasing 10 pounds per day, and I think that was three times a week. Then I took a rest week. Then I did two weeks of volume work that was modeled after what the East Germans developed, I did one day where I did like 5 sets of 10 reps pretty damn heavy, and then a light day on a friday. This workouts were excruciatingly hard, like about to cry hard, but the gain from the first to second and second to next first Max week were enormous. Took another rest period and then did Max Strength for 5 weeks, similarly modeled like the first four weeks in sets and reps. The lifts I did, back and front squats, leg curls, sled, straight leg and normal dead lift, and calves. Last but most important, I never did any lower body cardio for longer then 10 minutes on my lifting days. From what I've been told, you want to use your anaerobic energy systems, so your ATP-CP and glycolysis pathways, when you are lifting heavy weights and develop those. It takes about 10 to 15 minutes for your aerobic pathway to become fully functional (reason why you should take warming up in general seriously) so that is why you don't want to go over 10.

 

Hope this helps.

[willstrickland]

Thanks Jon. Got the Burke book in the mail yesterday.

 

The neurological recruitment strategy sounds like a similar one I've used that went like this: In a strength phase where you're doing sets of 5-8 reps, between each of these sets do one rep with very heavy weight. For example, say on bench press you're working out with 150 for 8 reps. Do the set of 150, rest a minute, do one rep at 200, rest a minute, do another set at 150. It's supposed to allow you to get more reps or use heavier weights in the later sets than if you had not done the single heavy reps between sets, and it seems to work for me. I won't use more than four of these workouts for any body part in a training cycle though.

 

Another thing I've seen that I'm trying to read up on is "complex training". It's basically stacking a set of power training onto a set of strength training. An example would be doing a 5-8 rep strength set on the leg press, and immediately following it with a set of plyometric box jumps. I've seen a study referenced in a few articles where vertical leap was measured before and after a six week training program. Some subjects were using only plyometric training, some only strength training, and some the "complex" method. The first two groups had similar gains, the complex group had close to a 300% higher gain in vertical leap.

 

The 10 minute restriction on cardio is interesting. I've always assumed that when it got heavy, you'd be using and developing the anaerobic exclusively.

 

Leg training is brutal. So demanding psychologically. And I definitely hear you on the so hard you want to cry bit. I was doing strength sets on pullups last week with 50% of my bodyweight stacked on the chain-belt. After the last set I wanted to curl up in a ball and pass out.