scrambler Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 This is what Nietzsche had to say about euthanasia: "To die proudly when it is no longer possible to live proudly. Death of one’s own free choice, death at the proper time, with a clear head and with joyfulness, consummated in the midst of children and witnesses: so that an actual leave-taking is possible while he who is leaving is still there." Frederick Nietzsche, Twilight of the Idols, “Expeditions of an Untimely Man,” aph. 36 (1889) Are we in league with death when we choose freely to accept living life with high risk? Do you agree with the sentiments expressed above? Or, is it just a fool's journey? Thought I'd ask you Oregonians since you voted to allow dying with dignity (or something like that, whatever you call it). Now don't read too much into this. Basically, I'm asking if there's any shame in dying before you become decrepit. "Why not? Why not? Why not?" Tim Leary on his deathbed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 Oregon? We are the Republic of Ashcroft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbw1966 Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 Stoic philosophers such as Seneca felt that suicide was the penultimate expression of freedom. I think that if one is suffering from a terminal illness, one should be able to choose to end the suffering at will. Ultimately it is an individual choice. What I find incredibly dissonant is the republican emphasis on state rights, individual freedoms and limited government yet their interference in a measure that was popularly elected by the citizens of Oregon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisT Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 rbw1966 said: What I find incredibly dissonant is the republican emphasis on state rights, individual freedoms and limited government yet their interference in a measure that was popularly elected by the citizens of Oregon. A measure that was voted for TWICE by Oregonians... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sk Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 I have given this mucg though especialy since my grandmother passed in 1997. I would much rather choose the time and place of my own passing than die in a hospital. My grand mother literaly had to beg to have the machiens turned off. I never want to have to be in that kind of position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrambler Posted September 25, 2003 Author Share Posted September 25, 2003 Hey, do you recall that fellow named Guy Waterman? He sat down on a mountaintop (Mt. Lafayette in New Hampshire??) and froze to death, deliberately. Happened about two or three years ago and was written up in obits printed in Rock & Ice, Climbing, etc. The Waterman saga involving his two sons was also briefly discussed in Jon Krakauer's Into the Wild. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minx Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbw1966 Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 Get a living will. Make sure your family, friends and doctor know about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrambler Posted September 25, 2003 Author Share Posted September 25, 2003 scrambler said: This is what Nietzsche had to say about euthanasia: "To die proudly when it is no longer possible to live proudly. Death of one’s own free choice, death at the proper time, with a clear head and with joyfulness, consummated in the midst of children and witnesses: so that an actual leave-taking is possible while he who is leaving is still there." Frederick Nietzsche, Twilight of the Idols, “Expeditions of an Untimely Man,” aph. 36 (1889) Are we in league with death when we choose freely to accept living life with high risk? Do you agree with the sentiments expressed above? Or, is it just a fool's journey? Here's a couple of truths: 1) All of us will eventually die. 2) But, we don't know when we'll die. So, what I'm trying to say is that if you're into adventure climbing then you should be prepared for the eventuality of death. I don't know exactly what that would be. Funny too, is the paradox represented by engaging in high risk (to life) activity to squeeze the fullness out of the act of living. Does this taunting of death somehow work out to increase your vitality? Sort of a challenge to the universal order. If I challenge the gods, do I become stronger, more virile? I know as a guy, I hate weakness, there underlies why I climb, because it makes me seem stronger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sk Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 scrambler said: scrambler said: This is what Nietzsche had to say about euthanasia: "To die proudly when it is no longer possible to live proudly. Death of one’s own free choice, death at the proper time, with a clear head and with joyfulness, consummated in the midst of children and witnesses: so that an actual leave-taking is possible while he who is leaving is still there." Frederick Nietzsche, Twilight of the Idols, “Expeditions of an Untimely Man,” aph. 36 (1889) Are we in league with death when we choose freely to accept living life with high risk? Do you agree with the sentiments expressed above? Or, is it just a fool's journey? Here's a couple of truths: 1) All of us will eventually die. 2) But, we don't know when we'll die. So, what I'm trying to say is that if you're into adventure climbing then you should be prepared for the eventuality of death. I don't know exactly what that would be. Funny too, is the paradox represented by engaging in high risk (to life) activity to squeeze the fullness out of the act of living. Does this taunting of death somehow work out to increase your vitality? Sort of a challenge to the universal order. If I challenge the gods, do I become stronger, more virile? I know as a guy, I hate weakness, there underlies why I climb, because it makes me seem stronger. YES Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nolanr Posted September 27, 2003 Share Posted September 27, 2003 scrambler said: scrambler said: Funny too, is the paradox represented by engaging in high risk (to life) activity to squeeze the fullness out of the act of living. Does this taunting of death somehow work out to increase your vitality? Sort of a challenge to the universal order. If I challenge the gods, do I become stronger, more virile? I know as a guy, I hate weakness, there underlies why I climb, because it makes me seem stronger. I think the answer is definitely yes. Look at coworkers, friends, family, etc. (I'm assuming you must have somebody that fits into this category) that don't do anything remotely adventurous or risky. Do they seem at all like they are living a full life or are they healthy and vital? Doesn't appear so to me. Just my $.02. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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